In episode 100 of the podcast, I bring Amber, Tasha, and Leigh on the show - three of the original members of the #SOBERGIRLSYOGA community. Back in the day, Sober Curious Yoga used to be #SOBERGIRLSYOGA. In this episode Myself, Tasha and Leigh chat about alcohol as a feminist issue and why there is a need for women's only spaces in the recovery world.
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Transcripts
Intro
Hi friend, this is Alex McRobs, founder of "The Mindful Life Practice" and you're listening to the "Sober Yoga Girl" podcast. I'm a Canadian who moved across the world at age 23 and I never went back. I got sober in 2019 and I realized that there was no one talking about sobriety in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, so I started doing it. I now live in Bali, Indonesia, and full-time run my community, "The Mindful Life Practice". I host online sober yoga challenges, yoga teacher trainings, and I work one on one with others, helping them break up with booze for good. In this podcast, I sit down with others in the sobriety and mental health space from all walks of life and hear their stories so that I can help you on your journey. You're not alone and a sober life can be fun and fulfilling. Let me show you how. Alex
Alright. Hello. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of "Sober Yoga Girl". This is actually Episode 100 of the show, which is kind of cool. And it is a super special episode because I have some very special guests on the show with me today. So today, we're going to be talking a little bit about the original Sober Curious Yoga, which is actually called Sober Girls Yoga. And the reason why we're getting grouped together is because Sober Girls Yoga is having a revival, which the news is probably out by the time you are listening to this episode. But Sober Girls Yoga is the original program that we had for yoga and sobriety on The Mindful Life Practice. And what made it different than Sober Curious Yoga was that it was a space specifically for women, people who identify as women, and people who feel comfortable in women's only spaces to gather. And the reason why we shifted to Sober Curious Yoga was to make it a bit more inclusive. And now we've decided to keep both. So have an inclusive open-ended one and then also a women's only space. And so I'm really excited to bring it back. And I have three of the original, the OG's from Sober Girls Yoga. So they join us in the very first month of Sober Girls Yoga, which was July 2020. So I have Amber and Tasha with me who did the first 30-day challenge, and Leigh, who joined us, I think just after that as part of our Sober Girls club that used to meet every Sunday. And so all three of them have remained members of the Mindful Life Practice and have evolved on their journey. And now we're all getting back together to hang out and do the show. So welcome, guys. Thanks for being here.
Amber
Yay.
Alex
So how about before we start us off, I was wondering if each person could maybe introduce themselves, stay where they are in the world and how long they have been alcohol-free for.
Amber
I'll go ahead and start. Hello all, Amber here. Coming in from Bahrain. I have been sober for, I believe my app tells me I am just under two years. So I'm 662 days.
Alex
Wow.
Amber
So super exciting and happy to be here. Thanks, Alex, for bringing us back. Yay, to our group.
Tasha
Hi, everyone. My name is Tasha. I'm actually currently in Palm Springs, but I've been with The Mindful Life Practice kind of around the world since I've been with you all. So I did Alex's 30-days Sober Yoga challenge in July 2020. And that's really kind of like been my start when I started my nondrinking journey. And yeah, I've done Sober Curious Yoga Teacher Training. I don't know what you're calling it and have done a few different things with MLPC. So it's definitely been a huge life-changer for me.
Leigh
And I'm Leigh. I am in Philadelphia, which is… and I start a bit with the MLPC. I was living in Cincinnati at the time. And I was about probably 90 days sober when I started, maybe 120 days sober when I started with the MLPC. I have-- I was just trying to look, 764 days. I would have to check now my sober date, I consider it to be March 1st of 2020 at the beginning of the pandemic. And I have been with the MLPC doing yoga classes and also the Sober Curious Yoga, YTT training. And then also I did the 200-hour yoga teacher training with Alex. And now I'm in the 300-hour, and I teach a variety of classes with the MLPC. I love it. And I love doing yoga on Zoom. It's really nice. It's been great to be able to practice at home and connect with other people all around the world. So, it's been awesome.
Alex
How amazing is that to think of how far we've all come and the journey has evolved and changed since two years ago, you know. It's pretty cool. I was chuckling to myself because Amber and Tasha, the way you guys both picked up the talking stick, I was like, I feel like it's how you pick up the talking stick every single time. We're on a call.
Amber
Come on. Let's go, people.
Tasha
I always, wait.
Alex
I love that.
Amber
Like the awkward wait time that's happening.
Alex
Love it. So I know we kind of shared a little bit about in that kind of prompt, people shared a little bit about their journeys. Does anyone else want to share anything else about kind of like their sober journey or their sober evolution?
Amber
Yeah, I'll get you on that. I've been thinking about this today. Shocking.
Tasha
Bring that phrase into my lexicon.
Amber
So I started on June 4th. So when I came into Sober Girls Yoga, I was also about 30 days. And mine started was because I got super sick. And my doctor told me that with the prescriptions that I have to take every week, he said, you can go ahead and drink, but you can only have two drinks per week. And I knew myself well enough that that was not ever going to happen. That if I was to go and go out for a night, there's no possible way that I could just keep it to two. I would rationalize that, oh, next week I just won't have two. So then I can have four today, you know. And it would just become the cycle of abuse of my body. And so that's when I was like, okay, I've been trying to come up with an excuse for many years, off and on, trying to determine how do I moderate my drinking. And moderation was really difficult for me. It was a major challenge. I would find myself at bars moderating by having a glass of water between every drink. But then I would, like, be there having that glass of water, drinking it down as fast as I could so that I could have my next drink and looking around at other people and gauging, how drunk are they like, how drunk am I? Where am I on my journey tonight? How do I slow down? How do I speed up? And it was just overwhelming in my mind. And the next day, I would have really bad anxiety where I would kind of be really hard on myself about things that I said or things that the way that I behaved. And I would find myself texting people asking like, hey, what happened? Or like, hey, I'm really sorry for what I said. And it just became a real terrible experience. And so when this illness took over, it was almost like it was for a reason. Like the universe just opened and was like, here's what you got to do now, and here's what your decision is going to be about. So it was that decision to just stop. And I initially was like, I'm just going to do 90 days and see how I feel. And then my mom had mentioned she's like, why not just go for 100? And I was like, yeah, I could probably do that. So before I knew it, I was several months and feeling really good. And then that was when I was living in South Dakota. And then I had gotten a job here in Bahrain. And so I entered Bahrain you know, in August 2020. So still full in Covid and was like, you know, I'm going to start fresh in a country where I only know a few people from my previous time I lived here. And I am going to start as a non-drinker, and that's how I'm going to enter, and that's what I'm going to do. And it's taken my life to new places where I can actually deal with my issues and my shit without using alcohol as a crutch to shield me or to armor me. And I actually have to feel what I'm feeling and talk about it and no longer push it away because the truth always comes out. And all these feelings and things that I had been holding back for so long, they finally revealed themselves. And it took me to new places and my relationships with my friends, with my family. It's definitely taking me to experience life from a more holistic perspective. And, yeah, that's where I'm currently at, just dealing with all those little intricacies of life. And it feels really good. Some days I want to--like after a hard day, I'm like, this would be like the best time to just go to the bar, but it's honestly just a fleeting moment thought. And then I'm back to where I need to be. That's my little spiel.
Alex
Amazing. Thank you for sharing and congrats on almost being at two years. That's incredible. It's huge.
Amber
Thank you.
Leigh
I was thinking about this today, too, because I think I grew up thinking that drinking was pretty normal, you know. It was normal to get drunk or to hang over the next day and move on and get drunk again. That was just normal. That red wine was good for me. It had those antioxidants. It had that I don't know how you pronounce it, like resveratrol or something that we're supposed to be able to drink moderately and be able to participate with alcohol with ease as part of our lifestyle. And that was healthy in a way, like a normal lifestyle. And I was in a running group, and we would all fixate on being healthy and being able to run fast. And then after running, we would all go to the bar and drink a lot of beer, wine, whatever. We would do marathons. And it was really normal to do the marathon. And then after the marathon hit the beer tent right away, drink as much as we can, and focus really a lot on our health and wellness and fitness levels. And then at the same time drink a lot. And there was like this dichotomy for me, like, we're doing this one thing that's really healthy and then drinking, but I thought that was just normal and that's what we're supposed to be able to do. And it wasn't even a question for me that there was an issue. And I always thought, either you're a normal drinker and can drink normally or you're an alcoholic. And I would question myself, but I was always like, oh, I'm not an alcoholic, so I'm not over there. So it's okay if I'm a normal drinker and getting hangovers and drinking a lot. And I never really even thought about that alcohol is a poison, and we're all drinking this poison, and it's not really healthy. And at some point, well, I have said this before, but my sister and my son, both-- my sister sent me a book, the "Sober Curious" book. I can't remember what-- I think it's just called "Sober Curious" by Ruby Warrington. And that made me think a little bit, but I was like, oh, I don't really want to stop. And then, you know, my son stopped drinking, and I listened to the podcast and I was like, oh, this really resonates with me. This is the one thing, like, I'm doing all these things in the health industry and wellness, working on my, you know, eating well, I was, you know, eating plant-based, doing all this exercise, and yet I was still drinking. It was like the one thing that I really hadn't addressed in my life. And I thought it was normal that I was drinking. And then it flipped a switch for me that I needed to stop. What was the question? How did we get here? Was that it? I don't know. I'm going on about other things, but I just think it's like a weird dichotomy that we're all focused in our society about health and wellness, and then we ignore the whole thing about alcohol and that we don't want to even address it as an issue. And that was definitely true for me.
Alex
Yeah, absolutely. Tasha, tell us a bit about your journey.
Tasha
I feel like my strength is a little bit different in that I was not seeking to become sober. Like, didn't really have like, you know, it has the medical thing. And they had kind of like a realization. But I stumbled into the yoga program because I was just doing kind of like a monthly cleanse anyways. And I was like, oh, this would be a nice way to do yoga and have a little bit of accountability for just taking a little summer recharge. But then I guess the more just kind of as I started building the habit of not drinking and it was also pandemic and I was living with my parents over the summer. My mom's an organ donor recipient. So I was being extra careful. So really isolated, having this community where I was, you know, collaborating with people and then just building the habit of not drinking. All of a sudden I realized how much I liked it. And then it kind of shifted for me to be about a thing of building relationships. And so that since I stopped drinking, like, I've made so many new friendships and relationships that have all been built without alcohol. And that's kind of where I think, like me not drinking, that's where my important ties. I realized that I just hadn't built relationships in that way before. So I guess I don't think I've ever described myself as a sober person. I don't tell people that or I don't really track my date in that way, but it's kind of like changing my narrative in my head of like, I don't drink and I'll tell people I don't drink, but I think it just feels like less of a-- like, once I let it go, it was kind of easy to keep it going because I had to build my life with these other things, like a strong yoga practice and just like relationships and all this stuff. So then once I let it go, it's kind of nice to-- it's like just distant enough, I guess. Yeah, I feel like I'm rambling a little bit, but yeah, I'm not sure of anything else to add at the moment.
Alex
Thanks for sharing. And I love how each of everyone's stories is a little bit different in how they stumbled into the practice. And I think that's important because it shows that it's not all one size fits all or, you know, everyone has a different journey in a different way that they end up where they are. As you guys are talking, I was feeling I know this is like a little bit different because we're recording a podcast which tons of people are going to listen to. But as I was talking to you guys, I was just reflecting on how much I miss Sober Girls Yoga, and I don't think I realized that. And Sober Curious yoga is amazing. I was having this conversation with someone the other day who was not really-- was a bit confused about why I was bringing it back and what the difference was. And I said, you know, it's amazing to have these inclusive spaces, but there's something special about being in a women's only space where I feel like I can comfortably be myself and share kind of everything that's going on with me and just feel really safe. And I was wondering if you all could share. What is your opinion? Why do you think there's a need for women-centered spaces in the sober world? Or is there a need? What's the difference?
Tasha
I can't recall what college book it is. We write a few books in the book club, but one of them really talked about how AA was very male. I think originally it was only for males perhaps, and then the whole program is written by men, and you know, people will kind of crochet kit for that patriarchy? Not strong with my words always. And I think that's something that really turned me off. As I said, for my own personal journey, I wasn't seeking to get sober. Like, I would have never found myself in an AA meeting or something like that. But I think it's also a big piece of that. The way that Sober Girls Yoga which structured is very like-- it's kind of like being at brunch with friends, which is like a cliche, but like a woman's habit, hobby, I don't know. And it wasn't rules-based. And I never felt like, you know, I had to do this and be kind of like a subordinate to anyone. Like everyone was coming together at the same level, at the same place, and it just like made it so that it was building friendships rather than fitting into some sort of power structure, which I think, like really as a woman, something that I was really resistant towards.
Alex
Yeah. There's a really good point. And that was one thing about the recovery program I was part of, which it's not officially a recovery program, but One Year No Beer, which I love because it got me to where I am today and love, love it. But everyone, it was run by two men and everyone was running a marathon. And the funny thing about it was that I ended up literally signing up for a 10K and I then had to leave Rolf Gates. I was on Rolf Gates training. I was 100 days sober. He said to me, why don't you stay and be my assistant at this weekend--? I'm like, I can't, I have to go run this 10K that I don't want to do that. Everyone says that we should be doing it at the end of your, you know, 100 days sober. And that's not to say I'm sure for everyone it works. And that's why they had it as part of the program. But that was not who I was as a person. And so that was why, for me, having a more spiritual competition, not even a competition, more spiritual practice in your recovery really resonated more with me. And I think it resonated with a lot of I mean, still, in Sober Curious Yoga, we're probably 95% women anyway, but it just seemed to resonate with a lot of women as well.
Tasha
I also feel that being women, we would obviously talk about the drinking that we talking in, and like in frames of dating or things that like you know, felt comfortable sharing with other women.
Alex
True.
Tasha
Like, oh, I went on my first date sober, which I wouldn't bring that up in a share its space, probably.
Alex
True. It's very true.
Amber
I think, for me, it was you know, post me too is when my personal feminist journey really got going. I had always been seeking a feminist understanding and breaking the patriarchy throughout my early 20s and then, you know, post me too, I feel like, it became very obvious that women needed more spaces that were dedicated for them, by them, holding each other up. Because we come from this patriarchal view that, you know, it's men and then it is all competition between women. And you're not as good as that other person because there's always somebody better. And so having a space that allowed for all women to come together where there are really no rules, the rules are, be nice and be compassionate and work on your empathy. And that is the space that Sober Girls Yoga provided where we could talk about our own issues and what we were trying to sort through while dealing with, you know, the influence of the alcohol industry constantly in our faces, making us feel ashamed because we cannot control our alcohol intake or we get drunk and we're supposed to be able to have some sort of control. I mean, all of this, like what feminist theory really looks at is that control factor. And that's what alcohol is constantly telling us you know what we have to do in order to be better and to be bigger and we have to compete. And it's a doggie dog world, and that's not how we should be living our lives and that we should be uplifting one another and connecting and creating community. And I think that's what I enjoyed most was to be able to bring my raw bean and others were able to be vulnerable and raw with me as well.
Tasha
And I think too, just the structure of starting with a check-in. Everyone just has an opportunity to talk. And that's something that you know, in a bigger space or like, you know, mixed space where you maybe don't feel as comfortable. I feel like that just always opened the door. And there are sometimes people I know wouldn't share, and that's fine also. But just having that neutral starting point, I think was very empowering.
Amber
Yeah. And also it was a routine, so you knew what was expected, so you didn't really have that angst and anxiety that you may have a very loosey-goosey type situation. I'm dropping all sorts of word bombs.
Alex
It's super interesting to hear, though. It's really interesting to hear your reflections on moves that I thought I was making to open it up actually didn't work as well, but that's cool. Leigh, you were going to say something. What were you going to say?
Leigh
I just was going to say that for me, it was just like it felt like a safe space where I was able to share openly without being like, I think Tasha and Amber really hit on it, but that equal playing field where it's like a circle and everyone's on an even level to come in and share. And it was also small enough and intimate enough of a group that we really got to know each other. And I really looked forward to it each week, too. It was like getting together with my girlfriends. Yeah, just that safety and the holding space is really a nice thing and a non-judgmental without getting advice, just being able to share freely with friends.
Alex
Yeah.
Tasha
I was going to say, yeah, it's like things that I've carried into conversations with girlfriends also. Like the rules that we set in the circle, like the non-advice-giving and stuff like, you know, it's kind of helped me within my female relationships also of building that structure of just open sharing, I guess, compared to, like, complaining or other, you know.
Leigh
Yeah, really, I feel like the structure of it. And I think we learned a lot of these things in the Sober Curious Yoga teacher training about the ways to get people to open up, like being curious instead of coming in with advice, just asking why, what's going on with that? Can you explain it more in it? And I've taken it into other relationships, too, and how I relate to other people. And I feel like it is really helpful because when you come in, like, just trying to tell people what you think is true, you don't really know what is true for them, and you're not going to change people's minds that way. Right. I think this, that and the other thing. And then they're like, no, I don't think so. Just asking, why do you feel this way? What's going on? I think it really helps a lot with relating with other people.
Alex
Absolutely. Amber, you mentioned a little bit about the idea of alcohol being a feminist issue. Does anyone want to touch more on that?
Amber
Well.
Tasha
I think that--go, Amber.
Amber
You go first, Tasha.
Tasha
I want to hear what you have to say. You just work it out as you say it.
Amber
You know, before I started looking at alcohol as a feminist issue, it's very much on diet culture. It's a feminist issue because my thoughts are is that the diet culture industry and the alcohol industry, they work hand in hand. And what they're doing is they're supplying women with these mixed messages and ideas about how they should live their life. And first of all, like, the majority of the money that we pay to the diet culture and to alcohol is lining the pockets of old white men. So pretty much right there, it's like they have their thumb on us or their foot on our heads, holding us down. Because the more that they can keep us drunk, hungry, deprived and living in a state of shame, the longer they have the power and the control. And so alcohol is a feminist issue because when women stop drinking and start leading life that is a sober life, they become empowered. They're less stressed, they're more mentally cognizant and able to navigate the ups and downs, the ebbs and flows of life from a healthy standpoint. All the while uplifting and holding other people, men and women, and non-gender binary. However you present yourself, we are able to hold everybody up and empower one another. But when we're drunk and hungry, we have nothing. We have nothing but shame, anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideation. We're an unhealthy batch. So I am all for us starting to shift the narrative of that feminism, alcohol is a feminist issue. So Tasha, over to you. What you got.
Tasha
I'm going to take it another way.
Amber
Oh, I like it.
Tasha
For me, it's just also a huge issue of safety and security and not in a way at all victim, blame me. No one deserves to be, regardless of how drunk you are. No one deserves to be, you know, in any sort of risky, dangerous situation. But after I stopped drinking, I just realized, like, you know, bad situations that I've been in, like, because I've been out late or because you know, me and Alex shared so many stories of like, late-night came rides through things like where it just was not a good situation and when your judgment is impaired and you're already in a situation where you're vulnerable because of your place in society, you know I think it's just used as a tool. And you see it just so normalized in teenage TV shows and things where like, it's just like, I grew up, like, thinking that that was like, totally fine and normal and acceptable. You know, there to be like the drunk girls at parties they get taken advantage of and whatever. And in no way am I, like, all women shouldn't drink because that would eliminate that. Like, I don't think that that's the solution. But just in my own reflection, once I stepped away from the drinking, I got very heartbroken for all of the past situations that I had been in. And just because I was so down to like, let go of all control of my life by drinking and by being in a place where you know, I was drinking to have fun. But it was really tricky to not be so held back by my thoughts and whatever. Whereas when I did let that go and then I had kind of like, build up my own resources within myself to where I wanted to be in control of situations. Like, I just realized how that had made me think it was okay to be treated certain ways. And, you know, that's just something that is particularly a woman's issue because of the social structure. I'm like talking with my hands on this podcast, but being lower on the ring. And then it just allows people that have more power than you to, like, take advantage of that.
Alex
Absolutely.
Tasha
And also, I mean, how we're able to show up for other people. You know, if I'm out now, my red flags are, like, flying everywhere when I see things that are dangerous and I can look out for my friends, whereas, you know, if I'm out, like, me and my friends are both trash, I'm not showing up for them either.
Alex
Yeah. I'll never forget one night of my life. So I used to work for the walk home program at the University way back in the day. And so I would actually be sober at night around when I was not partying and I would always have a buddy. It was like me and a man, and we would be walking around. It was really fun. We had a walkie talkie. Anyway, one night we were walking. I mean, we saw a lot of unsafe things, but there was one night, I will never forget this. Seeing a young girl who was clearly a first-year student, had no shoes, no phone, no keys with an older guy who was, like, carrying her home. And I intervened. I was like, we're taking her home. No, we're walking home. Goodbye. We walked her all the way back to rush. She was a first-year student, and I remember that so clearly, and that is like the perfect example of what you can do as a sober person. And I don't even think I put two and two together of like, I did this because I was sober, you know. But I think back on that, and that's exactly what I'm like my red flags are up and I don't really go out at social scenes at all, but my red flags are up in a nighttime environment, and I'm way more aware of what's going on. And I feel like I can have more-- if something like that were to happen again, I feel like I would be able to be in that action mode that I was able to be in that night.
Leigh
Yes. Alcohol is like the number one date rate drug, right? It allows us to be so much more vulnerable. And it's not even, like, recognized as an issue. So much like the typical feminist issues are like women's rights, NRA, diversity, you know, all these different things. LGBTQIA, all those things were started. But I think that the women's march is not even something that is brought up, like, as an issue in the feminist movement. I think that it's been recognized. Maybe it's starting to now, but it hasn't been something that's been-- do you want to say something, Tasha?
Tasha
No, I just want you to keep talking about it.
Leigh
Oh. Because I just think, you know, we have all these issues that we're fighting for with women's rights and reproductive issues. But it's like alcohol is not even something that is brought up, and yet it's what causes us a lot of the anxiety and issues that we have. And it's, like, hidden somehow because of, I think, what Amber was talking about, like, the big alcohol, the money, it's all not even recognized as--
Amber
Capitalism.
Leigh
Yeah. Capitalism.
Tasha
No, I was just going to kind of tie that to Amber's point as well. And it was like a marketing tool to empower women to drink. Like, oh, this is like a revolution. And, you know, I feel like I can be, like, a feminist and, like, you know, like, not like, play like a man. Like, that's not really the term I want to be-- but, like, you know, it was like, kind of like it was marketed in that way. And we kind of, I think a lot of feminists are people that, you know, do want to fight for that cause, will, like, you know, take that power because it's like, yeah, we want to be able to do whatever we want. And I think that is like, it was a very intentional marketing tool.
Alex
Absolutely. I was reading something about that the other day. I was reading an opinion article in the New York Times that was talking about how women will pay like, I think it was something like it was either 30% or maybe 13%. I think women are paying more for alcohol that's branded to be female, like pink vodka or Jane Walker, and they've made this whole market now. I never got into that stuff myself. I think I saw through it, like that one's cheaper. Or maybe it wasn't really on the market so much. Like, it definitely did not make its way to the Middle East in my drinking days. Maybe that's why I never got into it. But I know that that's a huge thing in the industry in North America that is making alcohol specifically targeted towards women.
Tasha
It's also interesting like organic and wellness marketed alcohol, which also ties into the sober yoga thing.
Alex
Absolutely.
Amber
It drives me crazy. You know, and I was reading about before prohibition, women were the reason that prohibition occurred in the States because the men were pissing away all the family income, and so then they got rid of alcohol. But then the flappers of the 20s kind of brought it back because they were able to have cocktails and smoke, and it was seen as an act of rebellion. So it's a very dicey history that women's rights and alcohol have. And so I think going forward with the reclaiming what is ours and what we want is. And I think that it's a slow movement, but I know that it is shifting, and there's a lot more. I think celebrities are very helpful with this because they are pushing for people to start talking about it, and it's becoming de-stigmatized that just because you stopped drinking doesn't mean you're an alcoholic. It doesn't mean that you hit rock bottom, it was just that was what made the most sense to you in your life. And we need to stop the judgment on calling people and question why they stopped drinking and just it's none of your business.
Tasha
My favorite thing is the first time I was dating without drinking, like people they're like oh, what can we do? I would normally take people to the bar to where am I-- there are literally so many things to do, but people were so confused. Like, what can they do with me? It was kind of mind-blowing.
Amber
That actually just happened to me last week. So a guy who is interested, he's like, you know, If I would have known that you were single, I would have asked you out earlier. And I was like, well, here I am. And he's like, all right, well, you want to go grab a drink or something? I said I don't drink. So what do you do? And I said.
Leigh
What do you do if you don't drink?
Amber
I have friends. I really enjoy breakfast. And he just kind of looks he's like, so maybe we can discuss what to do. And I was like, yeah, maybe. And I literally, had to come home and think about it. I was like, what the hell do I do? What are my interests? Suddenly like, I was just dumbfounded, like a little drink.
Alex
But it's so true. Oh, my goodness. And that's interesting, too, because it feels to me that the further I get away from drinking, that feels like a feminist issue, too, that every date has to involve getting you drunk. Right? And I think about that a lot. And I think I carried on relationships for a very long time past. They should have gone, because then when I was drunk, I was like, oh, he's not so bad, you know. It's really interesting that that's our story.
Leigh
Perception. Yeah. I totally remember going to visit my daughter in Boston. And we would go from one place to drink to another place, like from one brewery to another, and then to, you know, eat and order wine and then to another bar at night. And I said to her, what would we do if we weren't drinking? We have really nothing to do. That's what I thought that there was fun to do was go from one place to another to drink instead of coming up with ideas like going to an art Museum, going for a walk in the park, going to, I don't know, a painting class. There are so many other things we could have been doing, but that was my idea of fun was going to places to drink and sit in lovely spots. But the other thing I was going to say about the money in alcohol is I think it's really exciting now, how much there is-- I think there is a growing awareness, and there's an industry now for non-alcoholic beverages and non-alcoholic beers. There are so many different craft-type brewing places that are coming out with NA beers that are really pretty good. And I think it's like an expanding--and it's really exciting to go to restaurants and have so many options here and there. Some restaurants, not all of them, obviously, but some restaurants with mocktails, with NA beer options that are pretty good. So I feel like there is a growing awareness and a growing industry for capitalism.
Tasha
I'm just a sparkling water clean. Just one other thing I've been thinking a lot about is that I think it's such a desperation for connection in the community that I think really fuels the alcohol industry. And I think particularly in a place like America where it's so individualistic and people you know are really like, I grew up in the suburbs. So it's just like you are not as-- you're just not intertwined with people in that same way. But I see, like, other cultural groups are from other places that I've lived in the world. So I think it just really fuels because when you drink alcohol, you lower your effective filter and then you get this false sense of vulnerability. And I think that's what so many people crave is to be vulnerable with people. So then people just kind of like it feeds into the cycle of always drinking in order to be vulnerable. And then you realize when you wake up like you actually don't know these people, so then you have to continue that same path. And that was my biggest shift when I stopped drinking with that I can realize really quickly is this someone like a friend or partner that I'm comfortable with sober. And if it's not because they haven't built a relationship yet and it needs time to build or because I don't like this person, then alcohol shouldn't be the reason that I'm like continuing is kind of what Alex was just saying of like sticking with someone who's drinking, but also kind of the reverse of that. And I think that was also-- I think that is part of that going back to the capitalism and the money. Like, it's like so marketed as like a communal thing for so many people that feel so disconnected. And that's why you know, AA and other sober groups, I think, really do get such a following because it fills that space that people are using alcohol to fill.
Alex
Absolutely.
Leigh
The other thing you guys are talking a lot about dating. And I found like, I'm a little bit in a different place in life because I have gone through raising children with alcohol, and that is a huge thing that happens is all the marketing that goes into-- you need alcohol to raise children. Basically, it's too hard of a job to do it without alcohol. And how can you get through a day without alcohol and bringing alcohol to, you know, putting it in the sippy cup, putting it in the cooler to bring to the soccer games, bringing it to, I don't know, all the different things that you drink you know, sitting, watching your kids play and drinking on the street with your-- to me, like, I thought that I needed alcohol to raise my children which is really a sad thing. I feel regret about that, that I didn't have quality time being able to play with my kids because I was always trying to find ways to drink with my friends while I was with my kids. But it's something that's totally marketed and like the wine mom hashtag. Wine mom hashtag, all these different things. They put wine on onesies for kids. They put wine you know, all the drinking things that they-- cards on, little jokes about drinking moms and how you need a drink to get through. And the reality is it really creates more anxiety in parenting and makes parenting more difficult. I mean, I remember being hungover and waking up my kids as the babies would wake up in the morning early, and it's so hard to be a good parent hungover. But then I'm, you know.
Alex
So I'm wondering, I have two more questions for you guys. So I wanted to ask you about what were some of your pop culture influences that you think influenced your perception around alcohol? But I also want to ask you then, who are your favorite sober pop culture influences now? And the reason why that came to my head was because I was a huge "Sex and a City" fan. Not at the time that it came out. I was a bit too young for that, but I watched it later in life in my 20s. And I think that shaped a lot of my perception around drinking with friends. And I'm also really obsessed with the "Sex and the City" revival, where they have a sober narrative of one of the main characters is going on a sober journey. And so anyway, I think that's interesting to think about. What were the influences that shaped you back then and what are the influences that are shaping you now?
Tasha
Alex, I laughed because I watched "Sex and the City" when I came out, and I'm younger than you, so I wouldn't be watching at my grandma's house. She'd be like, close your eyes, straight up from HBO. Anyway, I have always been a huge TV person. Like, I loved the teen dramas, so I was growing up "Gossip Girl" was out when I was in middle school. I loved "One Tree Hill", and any CW teen drama, "Veronica Mars". They're always partying. And they're also like you know, 25-year-old people playing teenagers. So they just look like and it just makes sense. Like, you see people partying that's just like, I remember going to high school being like, okay, where are the parties. Ready for it to be that scene. And then the reality of those parties is definitely totally different. But also, I wasn't growing up in the Upper East Side or Laguna Beach, but let me think about my-- I'm not as big into, like, I don't follow people as much, so I can't try to think what I would think of as, like, who I like now, but maybe someone else will spark my ideas.
Leigh
My favorite celebrities now are Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach that are sober.
Alex
Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I was in a Facebook group the other day. Sorry, I interrupted you, but there was someone posted saying I recommend, this person called Glennon Doyle. And people were saying, I've never heard-- and I literally was audibly gasping like, how have you never heard of Glennon Doyle? How is that possible? And then someone else had never heard of Brene Brown. Someone was like, and I was reading these comments being like, oh, my God. But of course, I probably haven't heard of them before I started my sober journey either. But now I feel that they're so integral names to my life. So those are, yeah, great examples. Glennon Doyle and Abby, what's Abby's last name?
Leigh
Wambach.
Alex
Abby Wambach. Yeah, great examples.
Leigh
Yes. The only thing that comes to my mind, like, from when I was younger, is "Animal House" and, like, the college drinking scene that dates me. But I remember all those movies that are just, like, drunken people, you know, all weekend getting crazy, those kinds of movies.
Amber
Yeah. I grew up watching "Dazed and Confused", and I'm also from a small town in Nebraska, so, like, that's literally, that was my entire high school experience was going out into the middle of fields or country roads and just, like, guslin booze, like, mixing vodka and Mountain Dew. I mean, what? And it was warm, but, like, warm beers.
Alex
Amber, do you remember when you came to my house and I offered you a warm beer and you were like, disgusted. Do you remember that?
Amber
No, it's warm. I can't do it.
Tasha
Honestly, I can't even take regular Coca-Cola without subconsciously tasting vodka from teenage drinking. I can't drink that.
Amber
It's like Dr. Pepper. It's like I always taste it like vodka.
Tasha
It's associated.
Amber
Also, like, I loved Snoop Dogg. He was my jam. Lots of songs that remind me of, just, like, country roads, driving, and boozing. So pop culture.
Leigh
I was going to say I was thinking about the movie "National Lampoon's Christmas", and I thought it was really funny one year to get these moose shot glasses and have-- drinks with my kids every time that they would say a certain word, we had to drink. Like, this was my idea of a really fun way to spend Christmas, to play a drinking game, watching that movie every time. And my kids were like, stop, mom, we cannot drink anymore. I was like, come on.
Tasha
It's so funny because I even like,-- all the time, we'll be like, oh, let's make a drinking game about that and not even serious about it, but we'll be doing any sort of, like, watching anything. I'm like watching "The Bachelor". Let's make a drinking game out of this. And it's just such a culture of drinking games. And I'm, like, don't even mean it literally. Let's go take shots. You know, every time Joe does this on "The Bachelor" like we must-- you know.
Alex
That is so funny.
Leigh
There's a lot of alcohol on "The Bachelorette" and "The Bachelor" too, right?
Tasha
Oh, my gosh.
Leigh
What's the other one called the whole group of them together. I'm not really into it.
Alex
"Bachelor in Paradise".
Leigh
"Bachelor in Paradise". They're just drinking all the time, right?
Alex
I can't even watch it anymore because I just feel so upset by it because--I mean, used to not like it, and then I had some roommates that got me really into it, and then I got into it for a while, and now that I'm sober, I'm just like, this is just very sad. How many of these people are in really vulnerable situations. And there's a really interesting show where someone who left "The Bachelor", I think it's called "UnReal". She wrote a fictional show about a romance reality TV show where the producers are trying to mess up all the people's lives. And it's, like, speculated that it's based on her time at "The Bachelor", basically, and it's really interesting to see what they're-- they do pretty bad things behind the scene that really impact people, to make them unstable, to make them saying and doing things that they're doing. And once you know all that, it's like, you know, I don't know why we watch this stuff.
Leigh
Yes, I think that's one that has a big influence on people now.
Alex
Absolutely. Well, this has been an amazing conversation. I'm actually really happy we had it because it's gotten me, like, really hyped up and reminded of why I started Sober Girls Yoga in the beginning. And it's funny because I thought it was, like, the more feminist thing to make it more inclusive to people. But as we have this conversation, I feel like the more feminist thing Is to bring back a special space for it. And so I'm really glad that we had this conversation and really able to be reminded about why I started what I did and really excited that it's coming back and I guess we'll carry on this conversation in a Sober Girls Club.
Leigh
Thanks, Alex.
Amber
Thanks, Alex.
Alex
Good day, everyone. Good night, everyone. Wherever you are in the world. I'll see you soon.
Tasha
Oh, my gosh.
Amber
Take care. Love you, ladies.
Tasha
Love you guys, too. Oh, my gosh. It's so good. It feels like such a throwback. It's so nice. And we're all in different places than where we started. Like, physically.
Amber
Yes, that's true.
Alex
That's so cool.
Leigh
Where did you start, Amber?
Amber
South Dakota.
Leigh
You are living in South Dakota. Oh, that's right. And you moved to Bahrain.
Amber
Yeah.
Leigh
I remember that.
Tasha
I'm still in Minnesota.
Outro
Hi friend, thank you so much for listening to this episode of "Sober Yoga Girl" podcast. This community would not exist without you, so thank you for being here. It would be massively helpful if you subscribe to this show and leave a review so that we can reach more people. And if we haven't met yet in real life, please come hop on Zoom at "The Mindful Life Practice" because the opposite of addiction is connection. Sending you love and light wherever you are in the world.