"How Do I Vacation Sober?" with Kevin Bellack, the Sober Ginger

Kevin Bellack is an accountant by day, sober and mental health advocate by night, known as The Sober Ginger on Instagram! Kevin and I have been corresponding back and forth on Instagram since I offered a yoga class for 1000 Hours Dry in March 2021. Kevin had recently been on Sober Vacation, as have I, hence we decided to meet up and do an episode on the topic! The first sober vacation can be a stressful experience for newly alcohol free people, and as the post-covid world opens up, more and more individuals will be facing this challenge. Join us as we talk tools and strategies for your first vacation alcohol free.

listen here.

Follow Kevin on Instagram at @thesoberginger and also at @1000hoursdry. UAE residents, I'm planning a Sober Soul weekend coming up in June! Join me for a weekend getaway of yoga, meditation, art, and alcohol free beverages at the Al Ain Rotana hotel. Find out more information at: www.themindfullifepractice.com/sobersoulweekend

Full episode

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Welcome to the Sober Yoga Girl podcast with Alex McRobs, international yoga teacher and sober coach. I broke up with booze for good in 2019 and now I'm here to help others do the same. You're not alone and a sober life can be fun and fulfilling. Let me show you how.

Alex: All right. Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Sober Yoga Girl. I am super excited to be here with Kevin Bellack today. And Kevin is the Sober Ginger on Instagram. He is located in the States in Cleveland, Ohio, and he is an accountant by day, known as a Sober Ginger on Instagram. And he's doing some recovery and life coaching work now. And he'll tell us more about that, but is super nice to finally meet you and have you here. So welcome, Kevin.

Kevin: Hey, Alex. Yeah, it's great to be talking to you live. I know we've exchanged messages for a while, but it's good to finally talk to you in person, kind of.

Alex: Yeah. And so Kevin is involved with-- he's a co-host of 1,000 Hours Drive, which I had Kayla from 1,000 Hours Dry in way back one of my earlier episodes. And so Kevin and I have been messaging on Instagram because I did a yoga class for them. And so that's kind of how we got connected. So why don't we start off by you just kind of giving me a bit of context, like tell me a bit about yourself, who you are, kind of where you're from, what's your sort of story?

Kevin: Okay, yeah. So I am 41 year old accountant in Ohio. I've been in Cleveland for, ever since college. I grew up in Pennsylvania and then went to college in Cleveland and just got a job here. My then girlfriend moved out here and we got married. And so we live here with our teenage daughter. So that's where and that's where-- I'm sorry I was going to go into, like that's kind of where my, like drinking career started because I never really drank prior to college or anything like that like, you know, be here and there. But really, you know, college is where that all started for me. I know as a lot of people, I think do. I don't know if I'm going to get into how that kind of like.

Alex: Yeah, I just want to say, first of all, I can't believe you're 41. You have, like, the sober glow.

Kevin: Yeah, that's exactly--

Alex: Like, you look like on your 20s.

Kevin: Yeah.

Alex: So.

Kevin: Somebody is like, somebody said your age is in reverse. I'm like, not really, but it's just like I aged myself really quickly towards the end of my 30s before I, yeah, went sober. So.

Alex: Yeah. It's amazing--

Kevin: But thanks for that.

Alex: It's amazing to see how sober, like, just makes people look more youthful because it's like--

Kevin: Yeah.

Alex: You just kind of get back all those years.

Kevin: Right. It's just that we have that look where you're not, like, just zoned out or dead tired or--

Alex: Totally. Exactly. So, yeah. Why don't we jump into tell me about your drinking? Like, how did you start drinking?

Kevin: Yeah. I mean, you know, I started, I played two years of sports in college and then I was in a fraternity. So, you know, that kind of always, I feel lends to, you know, the weekend binge drinking with everybody. And so that's really, you know, how my entire college career went. Actually, my first real time getting drunk and sick and all that was on a recruiting visit for football, for college. So I was still in high school and I went to the school and stayed over, you know, a bunch of players and then just hung out and we end up going to party. And so that was my introduction, I guess, to college life. And I made the most of it then, I guess, and just kind of set the bar for how I was going to act, I think the rest of the way, unfortunately. But yeah, I mean, it was a lot of a lot of binge drinking, a lot of, you know, not really, you know, too much in the week. But, you know, whenever there is any kind of party or any kind of reason to drink, we were, you know, drinking all night. And that kind of then, I feel continued into my early career as an accountant because, you know, that has a lot of deadlines, a lot of stress, a lot of, you know, a lot of young people, you know, just doing a lot of work, you know, all hours of the night and weekends, and so, Bloustein, we would after that, we would go out and do the same binge type drinking all the time. And then, I got married fairly young, I guess, for today's standards at 24, and we had our daughter when I was 27. So, you know, it kind of was, you know, college was a lot of binge drinking, then early career, and then once got 27, I kind of, you know, our daughter was born, I changed jobs, I was at a corporate job where she was a little bit less stress and a little less deadline driven. Well, actually the first year was a bunch times, but after that is less deadline driven. So, things kind of seem that even out, you know, I ran a marathon like three years later and, you know, so I was doing stuff and I was staying active and I was not drinking as much, you know, I was still doing, but when I drank, it was still, you know, binge drinking on the weekends was my main kind of way I went about it. But then slowly, as my 30s crept on, you know, you get more responsibilities at work and more stressors happen. Then I would come home and have a drink, you know, to relax and then, you know, that would be two drinks, and then I would still, you know, drink a bunch on the weekends. And there's a football game on tonight, I'll go drink for that. And, you know, it just slowly, my binge drinking on the weekends slowly kind of filtered into the week.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: And then, we had a big project at work in like 2015 time frame. So, I, you know, was working basically all the time for that. All hours of the day and night, and that's how I, you know, a lot of stress and my only real coping mechanism, looking back on it, was to drink. Like I didn't, you know, I tried to fit in, exercise here and there, but, you know, that wasn't a priority for me. And when I you know, I didn't journal, I didn't meditate. I didn't do any of that stuff.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: And so, drinking became my coping mechanism. And then, slowly, you know, I was just doing it every day when I got home and had to have a drink and then I'd keep working. And then, after I stopped working, then I would just have a couple more at night. And then, 2016, our project was done. But now we have to implement it. You know, it just kind of just led from one thing to the next. 2018, we were targeted for acquisition, our company, and, you know, so I was on that project and, you know, it's just one thing after the other like that just kind of snowballed and my drinking snowballed along with it. And I don't blame, it's not I blame work for doing that.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: It's just I blame my own, you know, lack of awareness or coping mechanisms for it. And then, got to the point then where in 2018, you know, I ended up getting bloodwork done and that kind of put my doctor into like, Hey, your liver enzymes are a little high, let's get an ultrasound done. And so, get an ultrasound and came back, you know, fatty liver and, you know, even that. So, I'm like Okay. Well I need to cut back and then all throughout 2018, just kind of my mental health kind of started declining because everything started, you know, work just kept piling up and all these, you know, my weight was increasing. My, you know, I was having these health problems kind of come up, my blood pressure was through the roof, my head liver problems, which then made me, in my head, I kind of was like worried, like, Okay. What's gonna, you know, the big C then, right, there's cirrhosis or cancer.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: That's when I started like, really thinking, like, How do I fix this? But not knowing how to fix it, not knowing what to do. And that's really where I got to, that was like kind of the end of my drinking. That's how that kind of shaped up and kind of how where I got to start asking questions of how I can handle these stressors, how I can change, how I can do that, and trying to figure it out coming up short for months, actually. I don't, you know, in my personal life, I don't know anybody who went to AA, I don't know anybody who openly spoke about going to AA, so that was really the only thing I thought about was as an option. And that's where I kind of, you know, I'm like, well, I read about it and I just didn't click with the whole higher power and powerless and all that. Even though I was powerless at the time I felt. That's how I felt.

Alex: Right.

Kevin: Like saying that and believing that for the rest of my life, for my better sense to me. Because of that, I just kind of said, no, I'm not gonna do that, but I have no other options out there. So, that's where I was at the end of 2018.

Alex: Yeah. When did you finally like, when did you quit and how did you quit? How did that happen?

Kevin: So, 2019 started and we actually went on a Disney cruise and it was just like it was after New Year's because it's cheaper after New Year's, because it's super expensive. So, we went on like a five day cruise and, you know, just had a couple of islands in that. But, you know, Disney cruises too, they have alcohol but they don't have, like, the unlimited drinking packages like some other cruises. And so, you know, at the end of the week, I get my bill and it's like $800, $900. And I'm the only one that drinks out of the three of us. So, it's like, all right, that's a lot. Granted they're inflated prices. So, I felt it on that kind of vacation. And then, I came home, and I was already thinking about it, you know, towards the end of 2018 that I need to do something. I was reading "Recovery" by Russell Brand. I was reading "The Heroin Diaries" by Nikki Sixx. I was just finding books that, you know, I didn't know Kidlet existed. I didn't know Sober Instagram existed. I was just trying to figure out what to do. And I always try to, Russell Brand's book for kind of giving me the thoughts that got me to where I am like, because I can't remember what step it was to see just kind of, you know, reframes the steps, the 12 steps, into kind of his own modern day spiritual kind of thing. And the one is he said, Are you on your own gonna unfuck yourself? I swear on here.

Alex: It's explicit.

Kevin: It's too late now. But as I said, I said it. I was like, Oh, I should check first.

Alex: Have you listen to Kayla's episode?

Kevin: No, but I can imagine.

Alex: A lot of F bombs.

Kevin: I listen to part of it. Yeah, that was a while ago.

Alex: It's such a good episode. Oh, my God. It's so inspiring. Anyway. Yeah. Permission to swear. Go for it.

Kevin: Are you on your own gonna unfuck yourself. And that was, that's kind of, I remember, I was listening on audiobooks while I'm driving and I remember just sitting there. I paused it when I heard that. And I'm like, That's it. Like, I can't do this on my own.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: I've tried to do this on my own so many times and, you know, I'm the one that always wants to, you know, whether it's at work or, you know, my personal life, like, I'll take care of it, I'll do it and I'll go and do it, or I won't. And if I don't, then I'm just like, Well, I guess I can't do that. That's how I've always been and say, Okay. Well, I'm not gonna drink this month. And three days later, I drink. And it's like, All right. Once a month. Maybe I'll try again next month. Not tomorrow, not today, like next month. But ultimately, I got to the end of that book and I was like, I'm not, this isn't jiving with me, the whole higher power and that kind of stuff. And it does for a lot of people and it helps a ton of people. But it just wasn't something I was willing to commit to because I didn't think it would help me. Looking back on it, would it have helped me? Yeah, I believe it would have. But, you know, not even knowing where to go or what to do, I was just like, what are my other options? So then, I started looking at like therapy. Also, didn't know anybody who was in therapy. And, you know, so it's like, What the hell do I do? And I'm fairly lazy. So, if I have too many barriers to entry or to keep doing something, I won't. You know, I'll do it for a little bit, but then I won't do it. If I have to drive 10 miles to the gym and it's not going to happen. But if I have to drive one mile, Okay. Maybe it'll happen a little bit more frequently. So, I went online and I found Therapy Through Better Help.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: And I just I kind of, what got me to the end in order to sign up like, I was looking at it, I knew I had looked at it, I just hadn't pulled the trigger and didn't think. I'm like, Maybe I can figure this out. And I remember buying a bottle of whiskey on a Monday night and I bought a whiskey, I had wine, I had other stuff at home. And I remember drinking that Monday night. And probably took down about half the bottle, maybe a little bit more. And then,0 I came home Tuesday and I was like, all right, well, I'm going to have a bottle of wine because I'm going to open up the wine tonight because, you know, it's year end. I'm busy and stressed. And so, I open up the bottle of wine because I didn't want to, because I knew if I drank the whiskey, I'd finish a bottle of whiskey and I open up the bottle of wine. And once I opened up a bottle of wine, I knew I was going to finish the bottle of wine. I finished the bottle of wine, but I wasn't done yet. So, I went and drank straight. You know, I had a glass of whiskey then.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: And then eventually, I finished a bottle of whiskey too. And then, I kind of just, that's when I, as I was put in that last glass and I still drank it, but I was like, What the fuck am I doing? Right?

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: And, you know, I kind of was just sitting on the couch by myself and everybody's asleep. And once again, I'm out here just drinking and I don't know why anymore. And I just broke down and started crying. I was like, I got to change this. And this has to, I can't go on like this. I already knew that a fatty liver. I already know my blood pressure is 150/95 and the cholesterol's through the roof and I'm overweight and I'm stressed out and all this stuff. I'm like I can't be like, this is like, we're getting to the point here where there's a heart attack or something that's going to happen that is a real wake up call or not that all these other things aren't wake up calls. So then, I kind of just, I knew I already looked at Better Help, and I'm trying to, I can't remember what other ones are out there. But so, I just went online that night and signed up and I just felt like kind of a weight lift off of me. Until I woke up the next day, then I was like, Oh, I'd better tell my wife about this. Which obviously, she's supportive, but that was a stressful for me as well.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Because then that's admitting, right? That's admitting. Before that, even though I'm ready to see what's going on or maybe see, maybe not totally understand what's going on, but, yeah, that was, so it took till that was Tuesday and it took till Friday night to tell my wife.

Alex: Wow.

Kevin: And actually, she was sitting right here and I was sitting in a chair there with a glass of Bourbon and we were talking for 20 minutes. I didn't hear a thing she said, because I was just sitting there thinking in my head, How am I gonna say this? How am I gonna say this? I told her, I'm like, What would you think if, you know, if I went and saw a therapist, you know, and just and then like, it's like the cat is out of the bag and she's obviously like, I think anybody who wants to work on improving their health, that's great. Like, I'm all for it. And so, then again, it was like a weight lifted. And that's kind of how I got to at least the start of this pack.

Alex: Wow. And so, that was in, when in 2019? Is it still the early?

Kevin: Yeah. January 2019.

Alex: January. So you're just a few months before me in terms of sobriety. I quit drinking in April 2019.

Kevin: That's not that. And my last drink was April 29.

Alex: Okay.

Kevin: April 28 was my last drink. Yeah.

Alex: Okay. So we're in the same range then. Mine is April 13th.

Kevin: Okay.

Alex: Yeah. Cool.

Kevin: Yeah, because I think that Friday night, I drank that night, but then I went, after that, I went like 60 days without drinking. So, that was my first real stint into, you know, with the help of a therapist and other things, that was my first real stint into it. But then, I was like figuring out, Okay. Well, where the hell is this going now?

Alex: Right.

Kevin: I still don't know what I'm doing.

Alex: Yeah. And not everyone's path always has little detours, you know, I don't think I've ever met anyone who was just like, Okay. I'm going to quit. All right, I'm sober. There's always kind of loops and ins and outs and, you know.

Kevin: Yeah, definitely.

Alex: So, tell me about like, what was it like quitting? What was the hardest part? What were the challenges?

Kevin: So, like I said, I went like 60 days there, but the whole time. So, I had the help. I had my therapist and we met once a week. And then, the big thing, for me, that helped, was being able to message her.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Being able to pick up my phone and go into the app and just like, you know, it's 11 o'clock at night. I know she's not going to read this until tomorrow, but just typing out, like what I'm feeling or the urge I just got or being able to just process it, because once I hit send, then I could go in and delete it, but there's always a chance she saw it already. And it's just that it was that accountability factor for me.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: And biggest challenges I think we're just my emotions, really. Right? Because what I realized really quick was I drank for every emotion and, you know, if I got angry, my daughter was pissing me off because she was, you know, being a brat or whatever. I felt like my hand might shake, like going for the glass, like I felt that urge or, you know, if I was stressed from work, like, I remember messaging my therapist being like, I think I just said to myself, you know, it was a Friday, and I just said to myself, like, I'll drink tonight. Like, just that stress that was like, breaking that automatic response to everything with a drink was the toughest part. Like, interrupting that cycle was hard and for me, a lot of it was writing about it. And that's kind of where my whole love of journalism started, was with that app, because I could just pour out my thoughts.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: And I know a journal I think is supposed to be more for yourself and all that. You can't share it with people if you want. But that was, you know, for me, I needed that accountability. I needed to put what was going on in my head out there to someone for the first time ever, because like I always say, like, I was fine, I was good, I was okay. Like, that's my response for everything. I never really processed anything or I kept everything in like, everything I felt was on me to do or to be responsible for which it wasn't true, but that's just how I was felt, whether it's work or personal or family or whatever. Whether financial stress or work stress or whatever, you know, it just kind of all felt like it was on my shoulders and I kept it all in, and then I just drank it all down for so long that it was just so cathartic just to tell somebody that, like, what actually was going on in my head. I mean, that was huge for me. But also, another challenge I had, which I think was part of your question was, I was never like, I'm never drinking again. I was like, I was always, Okay. When am I going to be able to drink again? That was always my thought in the back of my head until, you know, I kind of, it was hard, because the forever was a lot of my thoughts back and forth was like, How am I gonna do this forever? Like, every vacation, I'm going to turn 40 this year. Like, I'm going on vacation in April. I'm going to, I'm not going to drink there. I'm not going on vacation ever again. I'm at my 40. I'm not gonna drink to this, to that, those thing. You know, you just started a downward spiral that hung me up a lot.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: My brother was the first one who said, like, you know, he was very supportive of all this. And, you know, I'm very thankful for that because, you know, him and I were drinking buddies for so long that he was the first one to actually say, like, Well, you know, maybe you just shouldn't drink ever again. And I just kind of like, What? Like, really? You're saying that like, this is just unexpected but it was almost like giving you permission to think about it.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Which was helpful. Which everybody knows and everybody has permission to think about, I've never drinking again, if you're, like it's an option.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: It was still scary, but it was definitely the start, I guess, going down that road and maybe thinking like, Okay. Well, maybe I can, but ultimately, I still kind of after 60 days, I try in moderation, like a work function, we were in San Antonio and that didn't work. And then, came home and we had a family weekend like Amish country where there's like the wine tastings and all that we did. And I didn't, at that point, I got home from San Antonio and I went basically right to that. And I was just like at that point, I was just like, Oh, I'm just gonna drink whatever this weekend and get back to it on Monday. And I got back to it and I was good for a week. And that weekend I might have had a drink trying to moderate. And eventually, at the end of April of 2019, I went on vacation and that was when I tried again to, I'm gonna moderate this vacation. I'm going to do it and I'm going to see how it works. And it worked. For all that's up two days, I say.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Monday, we were there. It was, we just had one too many at happy hour. We look we're going to go to happy hour and then dinner. But Happy Hour went from getting one drink to being there for three hours I think. And then, going to dinner. And then, coming home and grabbing something else. And so, that kind of went out the window. But then, I was good for a couple of days. And then, the Friday, the last day we were there, you know, we were down the beach and I just said, screw it, I'm just going to do whatever today. But every day, it was always in the forefront of my brain, like, Okay. What can I drink today? When can I drink? Like, Okay. Well, I'm not going to drink yet because I'm going to save it for later. And, you know, it's just that's so much stress to figure out how we want to go about it and what we want to do. And it just, you know, it wasn't a vacation and, you know, I was fairly successful at that, but it was just the constant stress that was like, is this really worth it? And I think Friday I knew I was going to start again on Monday, like, start Monday. And I started Monday and my last drink, April 28th. I was passed out during Game of Thrones and had to re-watch that the next day. And I didn't know, like, when I started there, I was like, I have no idea where this is going now. Like, I was kind of like, I remember it felt weird because the before it's okay, you know, the first time I'm like, Okay. I need to change. I didn't drink for 60 days. And then, I kind of try this thing and it didn't necessarily work out. But at this point, I was like, I have no idea. Let's just try 61 days this time is what I said, which is try one more day. And that was where I started. And I didn't know if I'd make it through the weekend.

Alex: Wow.

Kevin: But little by little, day by day, I felt better. And I kind of just, Okay. Well, maybe I can feel better. Maybe I can do this and just kind of keep working and working on things and went from that.

Alex: Yeah. Oh. So, you had a vacation and then you quit right after that vacation? Me too.

Kevin: And we got back Sunday, and then that Monday is when I was like now I'm done.

Alex: And I don't even think of that until you just said that. But I was like, Wow, that was me too. Like I just went hard, hard, hard on a vacation. And around the time, I was like, I really wanted to quit, but I couldn't quit because of vacation. I was like, vacations going to be ruined if I don't drink. And so, I actually quit on the flight home from, I was with my mom in Morocco and I quit on the flight, and then I called her a week later. And I don't know if I told her that I thought I had a problem with alcohol, but I think I was just like, I need a break type of thing, but yeah, same type of thing. I said I was going to do 28 days and then, you know, I am two years later, so.

Kevin: Yeah. It's awesome.

Alex: So, speaking of vacations, I am super excited to hear about your sober vacations. I know you recently went on sober vacation. I was following along and I did want to send pump to hear about that. Like, how is it different being sober on vacation than drinking?

Kevin: Yeah, so in April, I went, so, just for my two years, so, I know I feel like I was kind of cheating because I have in two years under my belt without alcohol is a little easier than it would having been on this same vacation the year before like we planned. But because of Covid, we didn't. But, you know, it was great. Like, it was the most relaxing vacation I've ever been on, first of all. And really, you know, my biggest problem on vacation, besides just taking the training wheels off and just being like, I'm just going to drink all week. It was the first night was always kind of set the tone for me for the week. And all my previous vacations, I would get to where I was going, but it was like, Okay. You have to work a time to be able to take off the week, you know, stuff done ahead of time. So, you know, there's, you know, need to do anything the week here for work, the week you're there. So, there's all that stress and then there's the stress of traveling. And if you're flying or driving, we have delays or traffic or whatever. And then, you get there and you have to check in. Or, you know, however the process is, there's always, it just takes forever to get there. And then, when you get there, then you're just like, Oh, you know, like, give me a drink. And every vacation, the first day for me was just blackout. Drunk typically, nine times out of ten for these vacations, like, I just got there and I just started drinking and didn't stop until I passed out, and then I woke up and felt like shit. And then, that kind of, and I'm on vacation, so maybe I could be here and just go to the beach or go wherever, the pool or whatever, and then just kind of kind of rolled on from there. So, this vacation, I felt like a little bit because I scheduled a live with people for like 7:00, 6:00 or 7:00 p.m. or 7:00 p.m. when we got there. So, because I knew I'm like, Okay. It's like it's in a three or something. I've got to get the car and get there. That'll be good. And so, I schedule my live on a Thousand Hours Dry.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: For later because then I was like, Okay. Well, that'll take, that'll give me something to do right away and that'll take like any kind of urges away or whatever, hopefully. It'll allow me to just kind of sit and call myself before, you know, started off on vacation. And so, I did that on purpose. Again, not that I like, as I was two years in. I wasn't really worried about that, but I wanted to set myself up for the first day it kind of feel good. So, doing something like that helped me a lot to break up, Okay. When I get there, I talked to her right away about 15 minutes from the time I went the door to when I live with her. So, there's a little stress there, getting there, making sure we got there on time, but not having to do it from the car. But yeah, we got there. I did that. And after that I was like, I felt relaxed. It was nice out there. And we just hung out and talked that night and the kids were playing and, you know, I just had my picked up whatever on and a Seltzer's, beers or whatever, you know, I wanted that I just enjoyed a couple of those. And that kind of, I woke up on Sunday and felt perfectly fine, like I felt right. And then that kind of led to me every day. I popped sunrise because we could see it from like our house we rented. We could look out like the bay was like a little bit away and we could just look and see the sunrise every morning. So, I caught every sunrise and that just kind of like. So, I felt phenomenal from that point forward. I didn't worry at all about vacation, because once I got through that stress and woke up the next morning refreshed, then I was just riding my normal self and just another week. But because of that, I just was able to relax and enjoy it.

Alex: Yeah. And I think you touched on something important of like, I say to my coaching clients a lot like if you have things that you know are going to trigger you or times that are going to trigger you, like if you schedule something else in. And I think what you did by doing that live is like the perfect example, because it's also something that's connected to your sobriety. And so, it like, kind of reminds you of like why you're here, what you're doing.

Kevin: Yeah. I mean, having an accountability partner, you know, posting on Instagram like posting your poster days on Instagram, let's say you're, you know, you don't want to drink on this vacation and you're, you know, 31 days in like, post every day, like 32, 33, 34. And just, you know, just different things like that. I'm not all about counting days, but it is important sometimes. But yeah, I really dig up what you said there, you know, what are your tendencies?

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Like, I drink hard the first night. I knew that about myself, so I needed to break that up. What, you know, do you drink at the beach all day? Do you drink just at night? Do you, you know, how do you, what do you do when you go on vacation? And breaking that up or having other options, you know, make sure your coolers packed with water and ice coffees and, you know, whatever, iced tea, seltzer and a beer. I don't drink a lot of any beer, but I had Heineken zero on the beach. And just to, you know, have one of those, again, that's triggering for some people. So, you take that into consideration. But just having that, and then having, you know, I had one another that was good and, you know, kind of quench my thirst and it felt normal to have a beer on the beach and the troubleshooting, like what really kind of are your pain points as far as drinking is concerned on vacation. And that kind of brings me to like, so we're going to Vegas then in like three weeks, I think. I think it is two and a half maybe. And we're doing, you know, I come to Vegas before and the first day I've been blackout drunk at one o'clock in the afternoon by the pool with my brother-in-law taking care of me and which is basically just putting a towel over my body. But, you know, we're going there. But we're going to do like we're going to go to Zion National Park, and we're going to go see the Grand Canyon one day, and we're going to come back. And, you know, we're just kind of planning other things to do besides sit at the pool, drink all day, gamble, drink all day. And I mean, we'll sit at the pool a lot more. We don't gamble a ton, but we don't gamble a lot actually at all. But you know, the slot machines for a while or whatever and throw some money away. But, you know, just doing different things on a vacation are really big, too.

Alex: Yes.

Kevin: You know, if you go to the beach, you know, what else is around there? Like, what what other sites can you check out or what can you use jetskies for the afternoon or that kind of thing. You know, just what else can you do besides your normal sit and drink?

Alex: Yeah. I think talking about all those like tourists things that reminded me of my first sober vacation, which I almost canceled because that was how worried I was about it. I think I was like three months in and I had just books a little stopover, like going back from Canada to the Middle East. I was going to stop in Paris and I was so flippin excited. It was like a place I wanted to go all my life. And I had just imagined Paris with like a glass of wine in my head, like in my hand staring at the Eiffel Tower, you know? And I was like, I can't do it. Like, I almost canceled the whole trip because I was like, I just can't do it. And I remember going to like the Louver, like going to museums and just being like, Holy crap, this is actually enjoyable because I'm not hungover. Normally, I would be like wandering around the museums going like, where is there a bunch where I can, like, sit? I was just so tired all the time. And I just remember that being I was like, Wow. Vacation is like like I ended vacation like this was a thousand times better than any vacation when I was drunk.

Kevin: Oh, yeah. For sure. And this vacation, this past when I went on like, that was that was a thing like, I was never once like, I got better each day. I felt better each day because I just relaxed more and I wasn't drinking.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: I wasn't like, killing myself, like to get better day so that I can drink more that night again just to do it all again tomorrow, and then come home, and, you know, like everybody says, I go, I need a vacation from my vacation. Well, you know, a lot of times people just, you know, we drink here at our home and our normal life and then we go here and we do the same thing, and we take more, we're just in a different location. It's like, you know, relax, read. I'm not going to sit here and say journal and meditate all that. But, you know, do your morning routine, like, do yoga on the beach or do, I read a lot on the vacation as much as I wanted to, but, you know, in the pool sometimes too.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Versus doing that. So, but yeah. Just find in those, I think keeping, keeping your routine too, it is important. Especially if you have, like I said, like morning routine or something like if you get up, you have a glass of water, and a cup of coffee, and read, and meditate, and journal, and do yoga, and do other things like, go for a walk, like keeping that on vacation is helpful because then, you know, getting up early, I think helps. Then, you go to, you know, you're not up till all hours of the night drinking, like you can still stay up as long as you want, but then you wake up, and regardless of how much or how little sleep you might have got, you're still more refreshed than you would have been before.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Even if you slept all like morning, you know, trying to sleep off a hangover.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: You can you can function on less sleep.

Alex: It's so true. And you mentioned something about being prepared with alternatives. I actually think I saw, I think you did an Instagram post about that. And that is what inspired me on my most recent weekend away. I have not even thought to bring my own drinks to a hotel before, hadn't even crossed my mind. And I was actually already on my way to the hotel and I ended up ordering a package of alcohol free drinks to be delivered to the hotel.

Kevin: Nice.

Alex: Yeah, because the two times where I have had a drink in my sobriety have been on a staycation at a hotel in Abu Dhabi because I'm just like, that's what I want to do. And it's no big deal because it was just a beer. You know, I didn't like, hold it against myself of like, it's all over, you know, but I definitely did not want to have a drink on the vacation. And so, the thought of packing things, I think, for myself, like, I would never think to do that, but it was like it was a life saver. And then, you know, I made my cool TikTok of all my drinks and it was awesome, so.

Kevin: Yeah. Because I know I packed as much as I could because we were flying. And so, we were driving, I would have like brought a full like, and a selection of stuff I would have, half of my car would have been packed with stuff like that.

Alex: Totally.

Kevin: And offering it to everybody like, Hey, does somebody want, you know. Yeah, that, and then just sit at the beach like I made, you know, I did the one real where I'm sitting there, drinking like all the different options, like there's iced coffee and seltzer and soda and beers. And, you know, there's just so many options that, you know, it's become like a, I don't know, it's kind of annoying after a while, though, and a thing like it's like any drinks can be anything. It can be, the Seltzer here, this could be a glass of water or a coffee, like that's and that's any, so whatever any means to you, and whatever you are comfortable with, you know, just having those options and enjoying that, like, you know, get the things you like. Vacation's the time to splurge. Right? I mean, you can, on stuff like that, like get whatever you like and one of the guy said on the post like, you know, enjoying desserts when you go out and things like that, which, you know, I would have been before. I would have, Nah, I'm good. I'm like, there's this extra nice whiskey here on the menu that I can get as dessert. So, that's what I would have done. But yeah, but just having the key lime pie when you're in Florida and stuff like that is, you know, stuff that kind of keeps you happy and kind of keeps the vacation nice.

Alex: Wait, is key lime pie from Florida?

Kevin: Yeah. I think the key west and east, kind of?

Alex: That was what I was thinking.

Kevin: Yeah.

Alex: There you go. Cool. I didn't know that.

Kevin: We weren't down that far, but yeah, we were on the gulf side, so, but I think it's just the Florida thing.

Alex: Cool. I know I've had the pie and I've been to Florida.

Kevin: Yeah.

Alex: Cool. There you go.

Kevin: Yeah.

Alex: So what advice would you give to someone who is going on their first sober vacation? What would you suggest?

Kevin: You know, like, look, we talked about I would kind of think through, like, what your normal, you know, vacations look like and where you definitely think ahead and just be like, Okay. What are we doing? Where are we going? Like, plan ahead. Like, you don't have to totally, you know, plan every single second of your day, but like, Okay. We're going here, we're going to a beach, we're going to Vegas, we're going to, wherever. Are you going to be at the beach all day or are you going to do touristy like hiking and different sightseeing stuff? Or, you know, what are you going to do? Plan that out and then figure out like where you think in the past you would have, like, drink and just plan what else can you do? Like, now if you do things now when you're at home, you know, how can you take those and implemented on your vacation? So, I think that's big is just to plan ahead and just kind of think through the different scenarios. You know, definitely focus on the positives while you're there. Focus on the fact that you feel great, that you feel all the money you're saving. The fact you're actually resting and you can still do everything. You can still be at the beach with everybody, you can still be you know, you can still do all the things you just don't need to have alcohol to enjoy.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Which also brings me to another thing is I would recommend, you know, making sure at least some people that if you're going with other people, like, make sure at least some people know that you're not drinking ahead of time, just in case that's some people always feel like that's going to be an issue with friends. If you're going with a couple of families or you're going with however you do it, if you go out with friends, and if you all drink before and you're not drinking now but they don't know you're not drinking now, and then you just show up, and you're like, No, I'm good. I'm not drinking. Like, you're going to get questions. Right? So, I think talking about that ahead of time and letting people know that, you know, what you're doing and getting support from people and you know the people that support you. And, I mean, most people will support you and then, you know, some of the friends that will be intense about it or whatever. But yeah, definitely having, like somebody who has your back is always a good thing to have.

Alex: Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good point. I remember on my first summer vacation, I showed up and the person, I think I might have told him ahead of time, I had met him on vacation and I met him on that Morocco vacation where I was drinking all the time. I do think I told him I was sober, but what I didn't tell him was that I was now a vegetarian. I think it was maybe a less. I guess I was less worried about being pressured around meat than alcohol, per se. But I do remember showing up. I was staying at his mom's house with him and she had prepared me like a French array of like, meats.

Kevin: Yeah.

Alex: And it's so funny because now actually, I've actually gone back to kind of dabbling in meat because it was almost like this momentum I had around my sobriety of like, I'm going to quit coffee, I'm gonna stop eating meat. And now I've had in mind. I'm like, Okay. What's important is that I'm sober. But anyway, I think you're totally right. It was a total tangent about telling people ahead of time, you know, if you're sober, definitely tell them if you're a vegetarian.

Kevin: I can imagine the disappointment on his mom's face that.

Alex: Yeah. Oh, it felt so bad. But they were so--

Kevin: Well, maybe I'll eat some just to make you happy.

Alex: But they were so good about, you know, like they're Parisian's and like, wine is part of their culture and they just didn't even have it in the house. After I said, you know, I think I was like 90 days sober and they were amazing host.

Kevin: Awesome.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. But the very least is have an options, you know, go grocery shopping and if you're at a hotel, you know, you can always find some store or whatever to go to and get some different options or ask the hotel what they can get like you did, or have stuff delivered ahead of time.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. Just get what you like and what you're comfortable with, yeah.

Alex: Yeah. So, let's talk about, you mentioned a bit at the beginning when we were just chatting about the kind of work you're doing now with Reframe and kind of recovery coach training. So, tell me about that.

Kevin: Yeah. So, over this past, at this point, nine months or whatever, I've been doing getting certified for life and recovery coach training. So, yeah, I'm wrapping that up now and have my practice clients and as well, you know, to wrap up my certifications, as well as doing some group meetings on the Reframe app, which is a great tool I feel for, I wish I had this whenever I first started because there's just so much in there that I didn't know at the time, because, you know, it kind of gives you a toolbox right away. Like a part of the thing is there's a button for tool kit. And I had to figure that out over time. Again, I didn't have the Sober Instagram community right away and I had a therapist who helped me build that out and gave me different things about calling it that. But now you go on Instagram, like, what you're in your toolbox?

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: You know, it's the buzz word and all that. So, you know, it's easier to see now and find. Yeah, it all kind of has everything on one one spot for you. But then, they just launched this new coaching feature where you can, I love it because it's like how I started, like, on Better Help where you can have all these group meetings, but you can also send video messages or text messages to your coach and get responses, you know, possibly in real time and just, you know, obviously in different time zones and different windows that people are working and checking, but within a, you know, 24-hour period, you get a response on. And for me, like that extra level of accountability is key for a lot of people. I know it was for me. I know some people can just do things on their own. And when they set their mind to something, they just do it. That wasn't me. I need accountability a lot, whether it's doing some kind of challenge, like 75 hard challenge or you work out 75 days and all that. Like I needed to post that. I didn't finish it but I needed to post that about that every day just so, you know, it wasn't like I was bragging like, Hey, look at me, I'm doing this. I'm like, No. I'm posting this so that I know other people see that I'm posting this and I keep going, which is the same reason why, you know, I would share milestones or my day count early on when I was sharing that every day, even though I didn't really share that with when people were following me back when I started my account. But having that, having that toolkit, having that accountability later is just so helpful, I think. Early on, for sure, but I think it's good to always refresh ourselves to, like I'm still with my same therapist now that I started with back in January of 2019.

Alex: Wow.

Kevin: I got a call tonight, actually. So, yeah. I mean, so, you know, that's a great tool I think people will get a ton of benefit from.

Alex: Yeah. That's amazing. And it's really awesome to have like I think, it's especially challenging for men to speak about mental health and speak about therapy. And so, it's really important, the work you're doing, like speaking out about alcohol, speaking about mental health, speaking openly about going to therapy, because I think it's only going to like, empower more people to access these tools too.

Kevin: Yeah. And I often wonder, too, because, you know, I share about that stuff and share about going to therapy, but, you know, I don't feel a stigma around it. But I guess looking back on it, there was a reason why I didn't do it ever. There is a reason why I don't need to talk to you, but only to share or do that kind of thing. But it literally, you know, changed my life just by submitting that one thing on that Tuesday night online and just getting my foot in the door there, just showing up for myself. That was a huge deal. The rest is not history, but it's ongoing.

Alex: So, as we finish up, like, is there any advice you would give in general to someone who wants to quit drinking? What would you suggest?

Kevin: I would reach out to somebody and ask questions. Just you don't have to do it alone. Definitely, I think community is the key, whether that's just with one person, whether that's with, you know, a therapist, whether that's just with a coach, whether that's in the reframe up, they have a forum, so other users can go in and share, ask questions and share thoughts and ideas and stuff like that, like or Instagram. Just reaching out to people on Instagram and asking questions. Don't be afraid, you know, I always recommend people like, Oh, well, you know, my personal account people aren't going to understand if I share stuff about that, I'm like, I'll set up an anonymous account, like, let's say mine started like set up an anonymous account and then share away. You don't show your face and put your name and, you know, just having a connection I think is huge. And just keep learning as much as you can, like, you know, you can read all the, in addition to the therapy and the journaling and all that, like I write every book I could get my hands on or I listen to every book, actually audiobooks. But the audio books and podcasts like this, like, you know, I just kind of devoured all the information and it kind of kept me going. It kind of kept me like, it gave me information and gave me things to do. But it also just, you know, allowed me to just hear other people talking about this, which I've never heard before.

Alex: Right.

Kevin: Because we're not supposed to talk about this stuff. But doing that made me feel less alone or less like the odd one out. Like, why am I the only one that can't control this? Well, you're not. Even when people look like they can control this stuff like, so it can all be a facade, like, you know, like I just said the other day, like, I think it was like, show me a time whenever you were at your lowest that nobody knew around you and all these.

Alex: That made me cry.

Kevin: It keeps me smiling, on vacation and all this stuff, but I can look at each one of those pictures and just remember, like at that time like how I was feeling and how low I really was, even though nobody around me knew quicker. I guess people realized that, that we're all just human and we need support. It'll be easier to get help and reach out for help and accept it, really.

Alex: That's so true. Yeah. And the more you talk about it, the lighter the load becomes.

Kevin: Yeah, for sure. And the easier it gets to talk about it.

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: Like, this is like a year. I started hosting on a Thousand Hours Dry, April 2020 last year. So, since then, it's been an interesting year in the month of just continuing to because, you know, even before that I was opening up a little bit and each step along the way, each time I opened up more and more, got easier to share and it got easier to help others. And yeah, just get your comfort level goes up with it over time.

Alex: Well, Kevin, this was such an awesome episode. It was so cool to finally meet you and to connect us to chats over vacations. And I will be seeing you on Instagram. I'll give your Instagram handle in the episode link. If anyone wants to give Kevin a follow, I recommend it. He has amazing sober content.

Kevin: Thank you, Alex. I appreciate it.

Alex: Yeah, and I'm sure I'll see you soon again.

Kevin: Yes, likewise. I'll share my, now my plan with Vegas is to do some kind of video or reality TV about like, getting the different bartenders to make mocktails and how the best way to go about that is. We'll see if I can pull that off.

Alex: Love it. Amazing. Love it. All right. Have a great day and we'll talk soon. Bye.

Kevin: Bye.

Outro: Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Sober Yoga Girl with Alex McRobs. I am so, so grateful for every one of you. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss the next one and leave a review before you go. See you soon. Bye.