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Addiction is a Misguided Spiritual Search with Jason Rudeen

In this episode, I sit down with Jason Rudeen, who a person in long term recovery. Jason is the CO host of the Way Out Podcast. He is a recovery advocate, a peer recovery specialist, and a Stephen Minister. In this episode Jason and I speak about his sober journey, and also the role that faith has played in his recovery.

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Alex: Hi friend this is Alex McRobbs founder of the Mindful Life Practice and you're listening to the Sober Yoga Girl podcast. I'm a Canadian who moved across the world to the Middle East at age 23 and I never went back. I got sober in 2019 and I now live full-time in Bali, Indonesia. I've made it my mission to help other women around the world stop drinking, start yoga and change their lives through my online sober girls yoga Community. You're not alone and a sober life can be fun and fulfilling, let me show you how.


Alex: Welcome back to another episode of Sober Yoga Girl. I'm really excited to be sitting with Jason Rudeen this morning and Jason is the co-host of The Way Out podcast and he is one of the hosts of Recovery Revolution live and we connected I think over a year ago because I had one of the hosts on the way out podcast on Sober Yogi Roll Podcast and I was on the Way Out Podcast it was over a year ago and we were connecting and emailing to schedule an interview and we finally got it organized so it's amazing to finally meet you Jason and welcome to the show.

Jason: Yeah thanks for having me and you know no worries. I mean, I think it's, it's God's timing not ours you know what I mean it's supposed to happen when it's supposed to happen so yeah but definitely pleasure to meet you as well.

Alex: Absolutely, so I was wondering if you could start us off by telling us a little bit about your journey before sobriety.

Jason: Okay um well I mean I grew up in a single mother household and my mom when I was really young she had a like the worst head injury in the history of the state of Minnesota at the time and uh she was in a coma for months and in hospital for months after that and I had to live with some family but when I was uh at one of those placements with uh some family I ended up getting molested by my cousin who was 16 I was five wow yeah he he molested me like for months and then I finally I got away from him one day and I went and ran down the dirt road and knocked on somebody's door and told them so but then my little mind once I was out of that environment snapped that shut in a box I don't know I never remembered it I think I did go to therapy at the time but I just it was like play therapy and I don't think I talked about it at all I don't remember I had no recollection of this until I was like 13 when it came back so uh but that was something that affected me my whole life and uh other than that you know I was just kind of I think robbed of uh the innocence of childhood you know it when that happened and then when I was like eight I my mom had another kid and I took care of him and then you know two years later she had another kid and my sister and so then I was taking care of two kids most of the time because my mom was a party animal and until I was so from when I was like 8 to 13 taking care of babies and it you know being the parental figure a lot of the time at the house so I don't know man once my mom got in trouble enough or whatever and she got on the bandwagon with some recovery stuff probably but nudge from the judge then I capitalized on the opportunity and ran wild I ran wild I started doing drugs when I was 13. uh first time I injected a drug I was 13. I started selling drugs when I was 15. started with like weed mostly and maybe some acid or shrooms and then by the time I was 16 I was selling cocaine as well meth and uh sometimes even like really strong tranquilizers like Special K you know Academy and and uh the occasional ecstasy or whatever but I mean I was always like that like I wanted to have Corner every Market when I was selling drugs I just wanted to be your One-Stop shop you know and I never let myself sleep or rest because I would feel like I'm gonna miss out on a bunch of business you know I mean it was it was crazy I would run myself Haggard you know I would stay up forever so I don't know and then I had a kid I got I lost my virginity when I was 17 and I had a son when I was 18 and then I had a little girl two years after that and me and their mom split up when I was 21. so they were only three in one and it was a whole thing like I tried to be a dad and do the family thing but I was also you know struggling with my addictions and I didn't even know they were addictions probably up until that point when I was trying to control them and have an issues controlling my use uh it caused a lot of like issues in the relationship because I was defensive and you know I'm not the problem so I I don't know you know I that relationship didn't work out and I didn't plan on leaving the kids just her and I ended up you know not being a part of my kids lives anymore after that so we've been estranged uh ever since and I did get to see my son one of the Miracles of recovery you know when I was like two years clean uh one time got to take him out to a meal and then he wanted to see my house and then I when we went there I was like oh my men's letter is in a frame with like pictures of them when they were babies and we were talking for like an hour before it occurred to me and then I'm like oh give me this and I opened it and showed it to him um I just asked him if he'd please show it to his sister too because that's for both of them and I don't know if she ever read it I haven't gotten to talk to my daughter but uh me and him you know I have his email address I sent him updates every so often and let them know how things are going with me a bunch of pictures you know new developments with the in my life and I I always try to be very mindful about doing that with no expectation of any return message you know like I just I feel like that's gonna do the most good I don't want to ever bear ill will or or resentment over any of it because I know the world doesn't owe me anything and um I can't imagine what those kids went through not having a dad you know so yeah I just try to do it cheerfully and you know love the fact that I have his email on a way to reach him and and uh you know send them updates and everything like that and I hope I hope that he sees them and I hope that he shows them to his sister and I hope that you know I make all my stuff public so if either of them ever felt like just even Googling my name they're gonna find tons of content uh I mean honestly I think anybody if they listen to enough of my gamer and on the shows and stuff they probably feel like they know me personally you know what I mean even though even though they don't so who knows what'll happen but I just trust God that if it's his will it'll happen and what do I want them to find right if they come looking I want him to find this guy I want him to find you know me with the needle in my arm you know so I guess that's kind of pretty much you know other than that like I ran restaurants for like 15 years so I used to be a kitchen manager at Perkins and uh before that I did a lot of construction gigs um always gave up one courage for another you know either really heavy into the needle and then I'd be like oh but man that's getting crazy I gotta quit that so then I'd just be like smoking bud all a day every day the other thing I'd be like drinking every day you know like I would always give up on crutch for another and if I didn't have a needle hanging on my arm typically I had a lot of false pride and I thought that I was such a good boy you know I always felt like I was doing so good so I was kind of silly when you think about it but I mean I didn't know then what I know now so I can I can look back at a lot of the stuff from my past and kind of laugh and just be like wow you're so dramatic or like wow look at you you know like I was such a I had such a victim mentality and I was so good at you know shoving off any personal responsibility and carrying on as if I'm only hurting myself not hurting anyone else and I put people through some crazy stuff man I've had old friends reach out to me and tell me that you know some of one of the most traumatic moments in their life was when they were at my house and watching me plunge the needle into my arm for you know days or black out because I did too much or anything over kind of overdose in front of them and I was oblivious to all that stuff I didn't know that I was scaring people or hurting people or pissing people off or any of that nor did I care and so what was at what point did you get sober. man I was uh I was 36 well no I mean when I really got clean went like when I stopped doing anything I was 36 but I got arrested uh I got set up by one of my best customers this guy used to buy a half ounce of meth for me every other day like clockwork for for like a year I mean I made so much money off of this guy and he must have got pinched and he let he set up a deal with me and he let the cops listen in or whatever and I got I got popped leaving my job I was working uh in the kitchen at a at a bar that had like pool tables and dark dark leagues and stuff like that in there uh kind of near my mother's place and I I just I remember I closed the kitchen that night I got off and I went I went out and I get a free beer and I grabbed beer and then I went out to the table on the patio and then I like there's that was like smoking section out there and there's like a little swinging door on the gate out there so you could like go out in the parking lot straight from that area if you wanted to and I went out there and I went up like my dude was parked back there and then a buddy of mine was also parked back there in a different part of the parking lot I went up to the truck to my dude went back to his tailgate I picked up uh two ounces and paid him for the previous ounces or whatever that I had uh sold and then I went over to my buddy's car and I threw my backpack in his back seat with the dope and then I went back into the bar and I slammed my drink and I brought it back up and I said see you later and then I I left and like when we were leaving we parted ways going different directions and I guess we both like my my dealer's vehicle and the vehicle I was in we got swarmed you know like this was a big ass bust I think I had like eight or nine squads uh you know surrounded us and stuff and it was it was like it was crazy I went I went to jail for a few days and then the detectives showed up and they just basically signed me out like they they were trying to get me to roll I told them I wouldn't roll you know I told him that I'm not gonna leave my son alone in this cruel world blah blah blah and they were telling me I'm just too nice and too honest to be doing this drug dealing thing or whatever they were trying to butter me up probably but then I like I just was like No And then they left and then like the next day they I got released and they signed me out I couldn't even believe it I thought for sure I was totally [ __ ] and then I ended up staying at my house and I mean my dude's trying to give me double he's like you can make that money back you know because I owed him now like two grand almost and I'm like nah man I can't because if they get me again then I'm totally screwed they got me dead to rights I've never been in trouble like that before like ever so I was pretty freaked out I was looking at I mean I was going to court for like a year and a half after that I was looking at 98 months in prison and and uh I just was like whatever but when I so I just stayed home and I was like I'm not picking up no more and I uh ultimately I just exhausted all my resources you know I first it started I was calling back and money you know credit off the streets I think I had like 2 500 bucks out on credit you know for from fronting people dope I got actually all of that except for like 400 bucks paid back to me so that kept me going for a while and then I was uh selling all the toys that I got on trades and stuff you know I had a lot of cool [ __ ] from dealing uh and hooking people up on trades uh once I exhausted all those resources then I was just kind of acting like an entitled [ __ ] and making people feel guilty like they owed me something because all the times that I got them High playing Candyman and uh you know that works actually for kept me going for a couple more weeks or whatever I think the last thing I did was trade in my laptop and I said that's it I'm not doing no more and I got like a teener dope or something for this laptop and I did it all in like 10 minutes like two two injections two needles worth I managed to fit a whole teenager in there and I was only gonna do one but I made them so they'd be like way more than I ever would do because I figured I'm never gonna get to do this again and it something crossed my mind about an ex-girlfriend and I got jealous and angry like as I was rushing out from the first needle and then I did the other one and I don't know why and I ended up going into the super crazy like I mean I've been in a lot of psychosis but this was the worst psychosis I ever was in in my life and it was terrifying it broke me down it broke me down to my core I mean I really looked back on that it was like a spiritual experience man it was crazy and I remember I was on the on my knees with a knife to my throat I was trying to throw my body down on it I was like wailing like a wild animal like a dying animal or something like in some weird ass noises I never made noises like that in my life and I was yelling help me help me help me help me over and over but what I meant was like help me kill myself and I didn't even know who I was talking to because I didn't really believe in God and instead I ended up putting down the knife and calling this guy and I started letting people guide me from that point man and I I started therapy I did uh parenting classes I did anger management classes I was going to probably 10 meetings a week uh I just really applied myself to it you know put myself in a program of course and I was doing these things because I desperately needed help but uh I don't know man it ended up opening the door to so much more you know like I made so many great connections in the rooms that when I when I was coming up on sentencing I had asked if anybody would write character references for me and I didn't think anybody would and the judge had 13 letters on their sentencing date in her hand I didn't know about any of them except for two and they were so profound and like just beautiful the things that these people said about me and they were all all written by people that I never expected would have like if I had could have told you who I thought would write one for me these were not them people you know shows how good my barometer for you know like meetings meaningful friendship is or whatever because these people really saw something me and the the judges moved to tears she decided not to send me to prison she gave me 20 years probation wow yeah and it I've been thankfully uh really walking that straight and narrow road and working strong recovery program and dedicated to service and I and my spiritual life and all those things you know the balance that we must find in life and it still started the balance part is a struggle still sometimes but that because I've been doing those things it's it hasn't even been an issue man I like it's not even on the table anymore for me I don't want to drink I don't want to get high you know yeah it's weird wow so did you um when you during this time were you part of a um a 12-step program or like what supports did you use uh it's changed uh over the course of my recovery definitely it started with CMA which is Crystal Meth Anonymous uh those were the first meetings I went to they do their step work out of the big book though so it's just the aaa's big book um but I was pretty much right away dove in headfirst so I was hitting CMA n a a a and then you know I wanted to learn more right so I've done like mindfulness in the 12 Steps uh recovery Dharma uh I even went to a y12 Sr meeting once which that's something that I feel led to go back to trying it's just hard for me because I like I got chronic pain in my back and I have a really hard time with yoga man like it's hard very frustrating like it's supposed to be a Zen thing right and I find it frustrates me doing yoga did so I don't know maybe I just couldn't I haven't applied myself enough but there was like a few months back where I did yoga like every day for like a week and a half and I even had my girlfriend and her seven-year-old daughter doing it with me it was fun when I was doing it with them I will say that I did not get frustrated because I was having fun with them like they took my mind off I don't know I think maybe I'm a perfectionist a little bit or something so.

Alex: Yeah and yoga is a pretty intense um uh experience like it's a really embodied experience and I think if there's lots of sort of uh physical trauma or emotional stuff or whatever it can be a um it can be an overwhelming experience so it's uh definitely um it's definitely normal to feel like either physical pain or frustration or like any sort of series of emotion when you're practicing.

Jason: well that's good that that makes me feel better because I was like what is wrong with me this is supposed to be like meditating right like this is supposed to be chill I'm supposed to be feeling super chill right now I do not feel chill at all like if anything it's opposite it makes me feel like out of control because my body is like doing all this crazy stuff it's like trembling and uh you know I'm just like what is going on with you body you know what I mean and you try to calm it down and it's just like man but I know people have told me too like because I got like this one lesson that was like super simple right and I can do that one and they're like you need to do that one until it's like effortless um you know like effortless before you move on to the second lesson because the second lesson right away is like that's where I'm traveling and then I'm like man so.

Alex: You just stay with the, yeah stay at the stuff that the beginning level stuff until you master it and you feel comfortable and yeah that's a really good suggestion.

Jason: Well the the lady says it in the video Lesson and I'm like but yeah I don't know um so I'm always open-minded though and I have been like a sponge since I got into recovery like it's just been nuts so anytime that uh I have the opportunity to try something new uh I jump on it and and there's I really love it when newcomers are like ah this don't work for me that don't work for me but I'm interested in this and but then I know like what's the next thing you know it's like they're like not gonna want to go because they won't know anybody and I don't even do that thing and I'll be like I'll go with you and then they're like right on really really and I'm like yeah let's go and go check it out you know because what's good for the goose is get the gander it helps me helps you then it's worth it night I like trying new things and meet new people I ain't shy I like building that network of sober people so.

Alex: It's amazing so you um nowadays you are one of the hosts of the way out podcast you're one of the hosts of recovery Revolution live what other ways are you involved in the sober world like how do you um support people or connect with people?

Jason: Well my God I'm doing so many different things lately especially like this last year's but not so I got I got involved with uh mobilize recovery which is a national initiative to uh Empower people uh and and educate them about Grassroots organizing and uh like motivational interviewing techniques and how to how to you know share your story and and follow it up with a solid ask and and it's just it's an amazing initiative if you haven't heard of it you just look into it it's called mobilize recovery so I've been like part of that and then I joined Minnesota rap which is the recovery advocacy project uh and we're kind of inactive at the time at this time but looking forward to being able to work with them in the future on some stuff uh collaborating with all sorts of content creators recovery recovery influencers which is crazy like uh I just had a couple meetings with the developers of this new app it's a health and wellness app recovery app called over it and it possibly because they're kind of working on a version 2.0 of their app and we've had a couple meetings talking about um just the app in general you know the quality of it uh you know what what do you like what don't you like kind of things just giving them feedback but then they're they're kicking around the idea of adding like a Content section where people can access some good recovery resources and so if all goes well uh both the whale podcast and Recovery Revolution live will be featured on that app there's also this other app that is pretty new called the solar app and that's like they're going full bore with this their ideas are so massively huge but I'm on the list uh as well with them to uh have our content shared on their platform as well but there there's is nuts theirs is like they want to have content for every single pathway of recovery like a ton of it so like anybody who's wants to dabble with this and Dabble with that and like try a pinch of this and a pinch of that can like have full rain access to all this stuff and it and then obviously with the community piece of it and all the stuff that they're doing it I mean it it's gonna be crazy but they're also in the beta form right now so it's not even fully set up yet because I I thought they forgot about me I checked with them a couple times like you know what's up and then they're like oh we we got you on the list man we'll reach out when it's time and I'm like all right cool because you know they said all are welcome and I'm just like I know me and Charles were really passionate about recovery and we're really we support all Pathways and that you know if it gets you better you know like do more of that like and we we just try to lift the people up and Empower people and give them as wide range you know similar to like that sober apps uh mission where they're trying to get all the different types of resources out there on the one thing right like we we have a similar Mission you know we've had guests from such a wide array and on the other side you know clinical side mental health side and the harm reduction side and all these different things like uh I like the judge that gave me a break actually got to have her on the show Once and that was cool he's stepping in the mind of a judge man and she was so candid yeah it was awesome man that episode if you go in the catalog it's called I believe in you with judge Diana Street and this is definitely one of my highlights of my podcasting just like I couldn't believe she said yes and then not only did she say yes but we had such beautiful conversations she really flattered me wait and and it was really interesting too just to learn about like what's it like to be a judge you know so.

Alex: Yeah we listened to that episode It's amazing when you think back to those like pivotal moments and those people that you know changed your life like your life could have gone in you know two different directions and I thought it's really um an inspiring episode to listen to.

Jason: I was inspired oh man was answered it was funny I was just like kind of a fanboy I'm like I can't believe you said yes it was cool.

Alex: What are the what are the tools that have helped you a lot in your sober Journey like what are your kind of regular rituals or routines?

Jason: So it's funny because when I first started I didn't have any like I didn't really know what my higher power was but I knew that uh they said you know not to be scared by the word God because I was doing the steps out of the AA big book and it's all over that book right so they said you know instead of looking at it like God like the big almighty God you know like they were like just think of it like it's like uh like an abbreviation or whatever for like a group of drunks good orderly Direction you know stuff like that so I was like okay and Trust the collective wisdom in the rooms you know like uh if I'm having a negative thought or I feel like making a a rash decision if I'm mad if I'm sad whatever it is like I need to expose that I need to find people that I trust in the rooms that can help guide me or give me feedback before I do something right and so that worked great for me for a long time and guess what when I followed their their uh suggestions the next thing you know I'm like huh wow that actually like feels good and that worked or you know Blown Away of course because my best thinking thought that these suggestions sounded absolutely ridiculous at the time but it it comes to pass where you just kind of you're thinking changes there for a while and you keep doing those next great things and and even though they don't make sense it's like my sponsor says you take actions that you don't believe in and you get results that you can't deny right and so when that started happening then it started to change the way that I like perceive events it started to change the way that I think about or respond to events and how they make me feel like I've learned what's mine and what's not mine but I would say even from the early stages gratitude finding my gratitude has been a huge one because no matter how hard something might be that I'm going through if I really just take a second to ponder uh life and like how it's changed there's a bar and on there's always like a super humongous list of things to be grateful for and it's kind of hard to be upset when your old gratitude and if I really do contemplate on that stuff did you know one thing after another that comes to mind it built like it swells my heart you know it feels wonderful and it's hard not to get kind of like oh yeah all excited and stuff about life so I don't know gratitude's a big one uh I did eventually find God you know I came to Christ you'd asked uh two like uh things that I do to serve the community like I I led the baptism team I helped start a faith-based recovery meeting uh and I became a Stephen minister which is like uh recovery coach with a faith element basically and I I was a certified peer recovery specialist as well but I didn't do it for work so I let it expire you know it's been expired for a long time like three years now or something but um and I I didn't do all that stuff like go out and make a name for myself or like do that professionally because I was a lifetime addict you know and I'm approaching middle age I had a lot of debt so I need to like make money like I can't work for like you know minimum or you know like very modest wage I'm like I'm a union member and I make good money so I need to make money so I can work on my debt but also like I want to take these classes I want to do these workshops and I want to learn this stuff so that's the next one I was going to say is education for me I need to keep growing and I do that by learning first and foremost and then um cultivating my relationship with God is the other thing you know I I try to get with God every day in the morning right away I usually on my car ride to work I listen to uh daily program which is a Bible study program called Through the Bible it takes you through the entire Bible in five years uh every book every chapter and it's also got like a world prayer team so you can pray for people all around the world and you know I'm in a Bible study group every week I've been in for like four years so those are the things for me is you know putting solid intention into building my faith and and my relationship with my higher power continued education for myself to help me be better of service to others as well as strengthening my own recovery in the process and remaining grateful you're probably in the three biggest tools.

Alex: Thanks for sharing that and that's a um I was thinking as you were sharing about your uh your faith the um there's this quote I can't remember who says it but it's that addiction is a misguided spiritual search and I found that that element of spirituality has been crucial in in my recovery as well and something that I never would have thought would become such a big aspect of my life and I think it looks different for everyone but it's it's some kind of belief in um it's like a belief in things bigger than yourself that helps keep you in that state of that state of gratitude and contentment with whatever life is throwing your way.

Jason: Absolutely and it says in the big book that what we suffer from is a spiritual Melody you know it says that we're seeking extra we're seeking external solutions to a spiritual problem you know no matter what what our behavior is right like any mild after Behavior you're just trying to fill a god-sized hole with something else that don't fit name everything you gotta find what fills your spirit what fits you know yeah whatever that looks like for you.

Alex: Yeah absolutely, so I'm wondering I have one last question for you. If you have any advice or any wisdom to share with a younger version of you or someone who is just kind of getting into that sobriety journey what would you what advice would you give them?

Jason: Um I guess what I would I would say this that it's okay to not be okay it's just not okay to stay there and don't do it alone like reach out for help you gotta remember closed mouths don't get fed and unspoken expectations, never get mad because people don't know what you need you know you gotta speak up you gotta ask for help and and just let people guide you like actually tried try following somebody who you trust is advice for a change you know because you're gonna you might find it works and there's hope that's the beauty the mo to simplify what I'm trying to say I'll put it like this you don't need to know what you're doing you don't you just need to find somebody who can help you do it you know who's done it before who can show you what they did and if that don't work find somebody else that has overcome and try what they did you know like eventually you're gonna find what works for you you know I like I mentioned briefly like I've I've tried so many things in the time that I've been working on recovery and it and I keep trying them you know I passed the point a long time ago where I've like completely the obsession has gone I don't want to get high I don't want to get drunk I found purpose in my life a long time ago I found higher power a long time ago I Found Love for myself a long time ago these are all like parts of the process that are gonna come you know so just keep in mind that even if you find something that works what worked for you today might not work for you tomorrow and you might want to try something else just don't let it get stagnant and don't quit because you're right where you're supposed to be right in this moment and if anybody wants to reach out to me I always I will answer every message I will definitely be more than willing to help you in any way shape or form that I can by all means you know like feel free to reach out you're not alone he's saying.

Alex: Wow Jason this has been such an incredibly inspiring interview and I really appreciate your vulnerability and sharing your story and what's worked for you and and What's led you to the place you are now helping others and supporting others it's just amazing so I want to thank you so much.

Jason: Thank you, appreciate it I really enjoyed your interview and that's why I was not giving up right because I was like I love that that was a great interview you were awesome thank you thank you so much I was like I really want to be on a show this scheduling sucks because she's like on the other side of the planet I was like this is hard you tried a number of times so I'm glad we were able to connect.

Alex: Finally made it work and and you were exactly right when you said in the beginning that everything just happens exactly at the timing that it's meant to and I do believe every time I have one of these stories I I sit down with someone I learn something I have a takeaway and it might be the message that I meant to hear exactly at that moment so I think you're absolutely right that things happen when they're meant to.

Jason: So can I flip the script on you real quick before you close it out, what's your takeaway?

Alex: What's my takeaway, you know my the real real that was resonating with me throughout this story was the talk about um spirituality and recovery and how the role that faith has played in your life and I've been reflecting a lot on my spirituality and more my spiritual journey and I've been struggling a little bit with actually it was it was Charles I had on my show who gave me this metaphor that I use all the time um which is addiction whack-a-mole he says it's addiction whack-a-mole and then the funny thing about it is that I've had to explain to people what that is because they don't have whack-a-mole in like because okay so I'm like always telling people about like this whack-a-mole game but anyway um I've been going on this journey lately with myself in that my whack-a-mole turned into like a an issue with food um which I didn't even realize was going on but an issue with like binging on sugar and junk food and um I was like struggling with some health issues over the past year and so it's I'm now in this phase of my life where I'm about five weeks off of like sugar caffeine gluten like literally everything so it's like wow sober Journey number two for Alex but this gives me a reflection on like okay what was I not doing what was I not working that was leading me into this point and I do believe that I have a spiritual practice but maybe there's another layer of it that needs to be unveiled or another layer of study like you shared you're listening every morning to the um the Bible the Bible study and I and I was thinking maybe I need to find some kind of daily like listen to The Yoga sutras because that's my philosophical text that I'm really into I'm like maybe I need to find some kind of practice like that that's gonna really kind of anchor me in my spiritual practice so that was my my big takeaway.

Jason: Yeah yeah and you know what remember this it's a it's always gonna change you know this is never gonna stop changing we are always changing as human beings we're always evolving as people so you know it's important to have that self-awareness where you know it's like if I'm curious about something different then I should like learn about it or if I'm feeling like something's stagnant then I need to get out and help somebody or you know just having that self-awareness to know that you gotta try something different you gotta shake things up man you know what you what works for you today might not work for you tomorrow absolutely so that's why I like to learn because then I'm like I feel like I got an Arsenal back here it's stuff that I can like we I can draw from you know at any given time sweet it's it's like a feeling of security you know what I mean so it's good stuff.

Alex: Well Jason, thank you so much for being on the show. This was amazing and I'm so glad that I finally got to meet you and connect with you and hear your stories. Thank you.

Jason: Same here it's been a pleasure, everybody take care out there.

Alex: Hi friend, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Sober Yoga Girl podcast. This community wouldn't exist without you here. So thank you. It would be massively helpful if you could subscribe, leave a review and share this podcast so it can reach more people. If we haven't met yet in real life please come get your one week free trial of the Sober Girls Yoga membership and see what we're all about. Sending you love and light wherever you are in the world.