Sober Yoga Dad with Matt Elli‪s‬

24 Feb 2021

Matt Ellis is one of my yoga students and sober coaching clients. Prior to quitting alcohol he'd never practiced yoga before - but after going alcohol free ended up making the huge lifestyle change. As of February 2021, at the time of the interview, he's practiced yoga every day for over 200 days and been alcohol free for 266 days.

In this episode Matt talks about the history/culture of drinking alcohol growing up in the UK and his experience around it as an expat. He shares his decision to stop and how yoga plays a huge role in his sobriety.

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Full episode

TRANSCRIPT

Intro: Welcome to the “Sober Yoga Girl Podcast” with Alex McRobs, international yoga teacher and sober coach. I broke up with booze for good in 2019 and now I'm here to help others do the same. You're not alone and a sober life can be fun and fulfilling. Let me show you how.

Alex: Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Sober Yoga Girl. Thank you so much for tuning in. Today, I am super excited because I have a guest with me, Matt, who is one of my sober coaching clients and my yoga students in the UK. And I think Matt is one of the most committed people to yoga that I've met this year. I think Matt has done like, you've done every day of yoga for what, seven months? Something like that?

Matt: Yeah. I think I'm trying to go for a whole year. I think I've missed the odd day, but in the other days I've always done two sessions.

Alex: It's amazing. And I love it because I feel like there is this kind of stereotype or conception that yoga is not like a man's thing. And so, I really love seeing you kind of take it on and share it with others. It's brilliant.

Matt: Yeah. I love it. I mean, yoga is like everything to me, so I'm very happy to talk about it.

Alex: Yeah. Awesome. So, Matt is based in the UK and he's also a school teacher. And I know you've also had a bit of a history as an expat living abroad, so maybe Matt you can just kind of give us a little overview of like who you are and where you're from, how you got where you are today.

Matt: Yeah. I'm from the UK. I'm from the North of England but I'm based in London. Have been in London for, gosh, a long time over 20 years now. Saw my family here. I'm married. I've got three children. And I went into teaching a little bit later on in life, so I'm into my ninth year of teaching now and I'm currently teaching the young children. So, I'm teaching four and five-year olds. I'm also a computing lead, so I've been quite busy this past year helping people navigate computing at home and trying to stay connected online. But I've been really lucky, I've been got used to traveling quite a lot in my previous job. I worked for computing companies and got to travel around the world, work for airlines quite a lot. So, I got to live abroad, I lived in Hong Kong before. I've lived in Mexico for a year at a time. So, yeah, I've had an adventurous life living away. Now I'm quite settled in London. So, yeah.

Alex: Cool. And tell me a bit about when you started drinking and what kind of influenced your drinking habits?

Matt: Yeah. I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot actually lately, and I'm currently going through a whole year of not drinking, and possibly forever to be honest with you. But, you know, I'm 45 years old now and I remember starting drinking when I was 16. When I was younger, I was always quite short, so I probably would have gone to the pub sooner if I could have got in, I'll be honest with you. I remember vividly times trying to go out and trying to get in bars and clubs and being turned away because I was too short. I didn't look old enough, and it was just something you got into. I mean, I grew up playing football. That was everything to me. I played football until I left home at 18, and it's just a cultural thing that you just end up going out to the pub and having a drink. That's what your mates started talking about. I remember going to watch a football game at Wembley stadium which is the most, one of the most famous stadiums in the world. A school trip, and we all met up around a friend's house first, have some cans of beer. That's just what you did, and you thought you did it to have fun. I remember eventually when I did get to go out, I remember like hiding being out from my mum. I didn't have a dad growing up, I just had my mom, and sort of sneaking back in the house and how ridiculous that seems now because she obviously would have known I was sneaking in like drunk. I also remember like going to work. I had a Saturday job in a supermarket going to work and feeling hungover for the first time, and what that felt like, and actually being sick on the bus going to work. And it was just so normal. It was normalized, it's just what you ended up doing as a kid, as a boy or a girl actually. Yeah. So, I've got some quite vivid memories of it, and that's going back 30 years.

Alex: Yeah. You know, that's the most interesting thing. I remember when I moved to the Middle East just finding it so fascinating that there are like other cultures around the world where it's that's not normal. Like it's not normal for local people here in the Middle East to be raised around drinking the way that we were, or to be, you know, it's my uncle said yesterday, it's like a rite of passage going to the pub when you're a teenager in Canada or probably in the UK. And it's just so fascinating because prior to that I just found it so weird when I got to Kuwait. And so, it's just really interesting when you pinpoint, you know, that's a cultural thing that we were raised in.

Matt: Yeah, and it is, and you fight to do it. That's the weird thing. I mean, I remember this, I got my driver's license when I was 17. And I got it really quickly when I was 17, so you could, in the UK, everyone can drive on the 17, and I passed really quickly. And the driving licenses then, this was '93, there were no photos on them. They were like old typed licenses, and I remember trying to fake that license. It was so funny. I remember like, we had a typewriter, right? We didn't have computers in the house then. We had these little WordPress things, but my sister had a typewriter, and I remember typing up my history project at school. And I tried to use that typewriter to fake my own ID and it's so laughable, it sounds ridiculous. And I remember getting Tip X, and trying and I was like, This is ridiculous. But actually in the UK, you could drink really easily if you looked old enough. I mean, there was a pub in Lincoln where I'm from where you could just go there, and most of the drinkers were underage. And actually, on my 18th birthday, I went to a pub that I'd finally got served in and they asked me for ID on my 18th birthday. It's absolutely true. The first time I got iced idea in the pub I'd ended up going to, they didn't ask me until my birthday which just made me laugh.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: You know, they're funny stories really. You know, I sort of look back on them fondly in a way but it's quite sad really that there wasn't an alternative.

Alex: Yeah. You know, I had a fake ID too, actually. And I remember having it and getting it before I even started drinking. It was an ID that someone gave to me and I didn't even really know what the point of it was. I just thought it was cool that I had it.

Matt: Yeah.

Alex: And then when I did realize, Oh, this can get me alcohol. And it really just made me really cool, like people wanted to invite me to parties because I had a way to get alcohol. And I kind of started seeing it as like almost like a currency.

Matt: Yeah. I mean, I don't know what the age limit is in Canada. I mean I remember going to the us when I was 20, is it 21 in Canada?

Alex: It's 19 in Ontario.

Matt: Okay. So, in the US, it used to be different states. And I remember when I lived in Mexico, and I was 20 by then, you know, I thought I knew everything by the time I was 20. I was living in Mexico and I did this amazing trip where I went all the way from the Eastern Coast of Mexico all the way through America across the border. I got like a visa, I had my passport, and I got to America. And in most states, I couldn't drink I found it hilarious. You know, they were so tight on it.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And then like, finally, I got to, I went all the way up to Michigan. And I came all the way back down and I got to Louisiana, and I thought you were able to drink there. I was excited about it because it used to be 18 and it wasn't, it was 21. So, I was like on Bourbon Street and I couldn't drink. It was so frustrating. You know, I just, I was like, I've been drinking years, you know, so it was strange, you know? But that's a bad thing, actually. To make the age limit higher, I think it's a good thing because everyone was drinking in the States when they're a kid. Everyone had fake IDs. My friend in Michigan gave me his driving license. He thought I looked enough like him and I used it to get involved in Michigan.

Alex: Yeah. It's so interesting because, you know, you see it done in different ways, like in the UK, the age is 16 and in the States it's 21, and, you know, Canada was 19. And I don't know whether or not, you know, we all still ended up with this drinking culture, so maybe it's like a cultural shift that needs to happen more so than like an actual kind of legal rule.

Matt: The age limit in England is 18, but it's interesting, when you think you're 16 you 15-16, that's when it starts.

Alex: Wow.

Matt: That would be kind of agreed age. I mean, 18 is the legal age.

Alex: Yeah. There you go. I thought it was much younger because I always associated, like when I was 16, I went to Italy, and I was drinking at that age. Is the age 16 in Italy, or was I just?

Matt: I think in Europe. In certain parts of Europe. I think it's just accepted, you know, but then--

Alex: Okay.

Matt: There's not such a problem, you know, because they just drink in their families and it's kind of a sort of a, more of an allowed thing.

Alex: Right.

Matt: It's complicated in each European country I would say. In Spain it's different, you know, and to France where, you know, there's like a wine culture in France where people will drink with their families and it's more sort of acceptable. And maybe the problem in the UK is people go out to get blind drunk to have fun. That's what I think.

Alex: Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. So, how did your drinking escalate over time from when you began until the time you stopped?

Matt: Yeah. I mean, I sort of break my life from sort of my 20s, 30s and 40s. I mean, in my 20s I was single. I was traveling the world, you know, I would go out a lot. It was work hard, play harder. You know, and probably, if I think about the times in my life it was when I was lived abroad, I was in Hong Kong, and I was working very hard in computing I got to travel around Asia. I was in japan, I was in India, I went to New Zealand, Taiwan, and we got to travel a lot and, you know, we were all young men working in computing. We were going out a lot. You know, I remember going out in Hong Kong. I probably weighed about another stone less than I do now, and I've lost a lot of weight not drinking in the last sort of year but I would go out every night in Hong Kong, at least go to the hotel bar. We were away from the center and some nights we'd go out into town, and not get back home till three, four in the morning, then go to work at eight in the morning, and I was still probably drunk at work. But you got through it, you know, people would have hangovers at sort of lunchtime and it was just so normal. All these guys working abroad. That was when I hit a sort of a peak of going out, but not not sort of as a necessity just as in I needed alcohol or sort of alcoholic. I don't really know what that means, you know, but we were just doing it a lot. And then, I came back home. Get into my late 20s, early 30s. Meet my wife. Start having children. And then, alcohol is more of a sort of a regular thing, you know, I was still working in computing at that time. I would have a drink most nights. I like wine. I used to like wine. It just became something sort of numb things a bit, you know, it's hard having young children, so my 30s, you know, my daughters are all quite young. Then I went into teaching mid 30s, late 30s, and met a great bunch of people at work. I work at a brilliant school, made some great friends, and it sort of shifted to knowing women more, in teaching I would say, you know, as with the guys in computing, I was actually brought up by women not having a dad growing up. I had two sisters, my mom, then being surrounded by girls at home, girls at school, but there was still this culture of going out to the pub on a Friday night. But what changed was I'd be going out to the pub about five after school, and by eight, I'd be drunk. I'd like really gone for it. Gone home where my family just got back from gymnastics, because all my girls do gymnastics. That's the story over the last five or six years. And I'd be like, the drunk dad at home and they'd all been out to gymnastics, even my wife and, you know, having a takeaway just sort of setting that routine, trying not to drink during the week but sort of succumbing to a couple of glasses of wine every now and again. Well, most days, and then more at the weekend. You know, a few beers, some wine, feeling groggy, the cycle repeats. And that's what it was like until last May, really when sort of Covid struck. And that was kind of the cycle I was in. So, different periods of time really.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: That makes sense?

Alex: Yeah, absolutely. I have a question for you. You mentioned the kind of the expat drinking culture and I, myself, I've been an expat for six years and I find that the drinking amongst expats is like so, it's such an integral part of the culture and I was wondering why do you think it's such a big part of expat life?

Matt: Yeah. I mean, I suppose I knew a diff-- I did see people who'd moved out to places, Hong Kong's a good example of that, and I knew a group more that was sort of we were based somewhere for a long time, but it's a similar thing. These are people are away from home getting together and sort of reliving what their life is at home, you know, and thinking that it's drinking, and that to have fun, you need to drink. And, you know, just an excess really and maybe to make you happier because you're away from what you know. I don't know.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: It has something to do with it. Yeah, it's a tricky one. I would say when I lived in Mexico, I knew people who had moved out there and they've gone out there for various reasons. I think you have to look the reasons why people are out there. I'm kind of pledging this answer a bit because I'm not 100% sure about it, I just know that we felt like we had to drink.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: To survive, to have fun. That's what you did. That’s how you socialized with people.

Alex: Yeah. I completely agree. I wonder too if it's like, in the expat situations it's like, you don't know anyone, you're trying to make friends, and a lot of bonding as an adult revolves around drinking, you know?

Matt: It's a confidence thing. It's, you know, it's like meeting people. It's like, I'll buy you a beer, where are you from? Oh no, I'm from there, you know, I'm from, I come from that part of the country, you know, and, yeah, it gives you confidence, we think, we thought, you know, but does it really? And I think when you're younger, it feels like it's something you should do and what I found when I worked abroad is everyone seemed to be older than me.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: So, just sort of fit in. That's what you did. You know, the guys who are already married, already had kids, you know, and you sort of kept up with them.

Alex: Right.

Matt: You know, and I trained myself to be a good drinker. That's the sad thing living abroad. You know, I got better at it, you know, I'm somebody who can handle their drink, you know, I was, you know, it's kind of like a badge, isn't it, of honor, almost.

Alex: Yeah. So, what was it like when you finally decided to to stop? What made you wanna stop?

Matt: I mean, I'm quite a decisive person, Alex, so when I decided to do it, I was pretty determined. It's like when I decided to become a teacher, I sort of think about that. I just thought I'm gonna do it. And I decided to stop drinking, and it was last May, the day was May the 25th, and I was watching a couple of programs on TV and one of them was about former England football players, and these are like old school footballers who played for the soccer team, and their lifestyle in the 80s was you played but you drank, and it's not like that now. Professional sport is not like that but professional sport, and these guys were quite well paid, was like that. You had a lot of time on your hands and you went out and you drunk, and there was some of these footballers got together on this TV program, it's called "Harry's Heroes", there was a team, an old team of 40 and 50-year olds who got together and went on tour to rekindle past glories and have a laugh and, you know, a lot of them still drank. And one particular player is called Neil Ruddock. He was a very well known footballer, big defender, good player, not the best but he got to a high level. He looked awful, he weighed over 20 stone, he was only like 50 to 53 and looked terrible, and he had obviously had a real problem, and his wife came out on the tour with them and she was like, Oh yeah, he's got a terrible problem. Then she was drinking with him. And then there was another former football player called Paul Merson who had given up drinking, and he was into gambling and all sorts and he was totally sober and he just broke down in tears at his mate who he knew and how awful he'd let his life get. And so, that struck accordingly, and then the same day I'd watched another program about a comedian called "Tony Slattery" who was a very well-known comedian in the UK in the 80s and early 90s. He was very funny. He was on TV programs. He was an actor. And there was a newspaper article written about him because everyone's like, What happened to this guy? And he totally disappeared in 1995 and no one knew where he was, and this program was about finding him again. And what had happened was he just suffered massively with mental illness, and the program was about finding out whether he had bipolar or not and, you know, what was his mental illness. And all through the program it became quite obvious that he drank quite heavily, and eventually they couldn't diagnose his mental health issues because he couldn't stop drinking. And they said to him, When was the last time you didn't have a drink? And the camera just sat on this guy and he just couldn't answer it because it was so long ago. We were talking years and years and years, there wasn't a day when he hadn't not had a drink. And so, I just it really struck me and I thought, I'm just gonna not drink for a bit. I'm just gonna stop there and then. So, I went on my phone, this is where I sat actually. This exact place on my sofa. And I started looking at my phone going "How to stop drinking?", and I found this book to stop drinking 28 days. Sorry I'm rabbling on here.

Alex: No. Go ahead, it's so interesting.

Matt: And then I discovered the book was written by this thing called "One Year No Beer", joined that Facebook group, and I did it and after three or four days, I started to feel quite good, and I told my neighbors I said, Oh, yeah. I'm just cutting out the drink. And they laughed at me, you know, they're good friends, we have a drink with, you know, and they're like, Yeah, right. And I watch them all drink, I remember. It's funny how you remember these things so vividly with drink. I'm not someone who forgets things and I watched, even when I was drinking, I certainly don't forget things. Now, I remember I sat outside in our garden and they my wife as well was having drinks. They were and I just didn't, and it was really hard. And I watched them get steadily a little bit drunker and I thought, God, this is weird. And then, I never really looked back. And then I connected with you like a month later or so. I've always fancied doing yoga and then, you know, started doing yoga, and I didn't find it hard giving up drinking really. Once I set my mind to it, I didn't, I've not found it so terrifyingly hard.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Maybe it's because it's a Covid thing. And I always worry now that I'm not drinking because of Covid, it's made me do it, but I think actually what's happened in this country is people are drinking more.

Alex: I agree, yeah.

Matt: I've kind of done it the other way, although nervously I think, Oh, I wouldn't be able to manage it, you know, in non-pandemic times. But I think people are probably drinking more.

Alex: Yeah. I've seen that on statistics on the news. Okay. So, you kind of answered my next question then. I was gonna ask you if you ever tried to give it up in the past before, but it sounds like you just had your clean break.

Matt: Yeah. I didn't, I've done like, the odd. I've tried to do dry January before and I think I got to 21 days and just like, This is terrible. I don't like this. What am I doing this for? I remember that, I remember saying that to people going, you know, I remember saying I'm no quitter to people. I actually remember someone saying that to me once about smoking. I used to smoke cigarettes a long time ago, not many but I did occasionally. And I met so much and I said, Do you still smoke cigarettes? She said, Yeah. I'm no quitter. And I used to say that about alcohol. So, now I've not really tried.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: I once, I'd done a month. It was the longest I'd ever done in nearly 30 years, you know? I started feeling really good, started feeling great. Yeah.

Alex: Yeah. I think you and I share that personality treat in common like, I didn't have a lot of start and stops. Like, I didn't have any blips at all. I just decided I'm done and that's it, but I think it's the stubbornness in me, it's like, I'm never gonna say that I'm actually quitting until I am 100% quitting, so there were probably years that I thought about it, but I just never wanted to be, you know, I never wanna go back on my word.

Matt: Yeah. I mean, I worry that, you know, a lot of stories you read, it's like, You have to do this a few times. I didn't worry about it but I suppose everyone's different, you know, you could have tried, they've done 100 days and they fell off the wagon or whatever, and then do it again. I don't ever think I'll be like that. I'm not that sort of person. I just do it. You know, I'm very decisive about certain things, you know, I'm not decisive about putting a shelf together or something. I hate doing stuff like that but becoming a teacher, giving up drinking, you know? Funnily enough, I can't quit biting my nails, bizarrely, but something quite serious in your life, you know, I'll just do it, and actually I'm thinking now if I ever did have the odd drink. I would never like be like weeks and weeks. I can't see it.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: It's just not gonna happen.

Alex: So, what were the main benefits that you have found since you've gone alcohol-free?

Matt: Yeah. My heart rate dropped a lot, certainly a good ten 10%, maybe 15%, like my resting heart rate, it was over 70 and it's sort of about 61-62, and that's a big drop. And I was quite physically fit. I used to done triathlons before, you know, and I'd done Joe Wick's hit program before, you know, body coach stuff, but there was always the payoff was to drink. Less dehydrated, better sleep, less time in bed, better quality sleep. I've got a Fitbit, so I get a sleep score. And sometimes my sleep scores aren't great, but I'm getting up early. I mean, the biggest thing is I get up early. I mean, I'm doing yoga at 6 am.

Alex: You know, it's amazing.

Matt: At one point, I was doing it twice a week. I've tailed off a lit, but even now I got up at 5:45 because the times changed. Although, I did do some Kundalini at 6 o'clock in the last couple of weeks as well. You know, I get up early on the weekend. I feel sad if I'm lying in bed and it's gone 8:00.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: In fact, today, I don't feel 100% because I got up at eight o'clock. That's like, quite late, but I looked to my sleep score and it made me happy. So, those are the really big changes. My skin is better. People say my skin is better. I actually feel I don't look my age. I do feel that actually increasingly, which is nice. And actually, I don't think my age. Anyway, when you work with young children, you know this. I think time stops and you stay a kid forever. So, it's a good work space to be in and it's made me do more exercises, maybe walk more. There's so many benefits, Alex. I mean, I can't, you know, you know them mate. I would say the sleep and having that time to myself. When I get up early, I sit, I go for a walk. It's been harder in the winter and it's dark, but I go out walking. I meditate more. I look forward to yoga so much, you know, that probably leads you on to your next question.

Alex: Yes. My next question is what are the main strategies that have helped you when you've gone alcohol-free?

Matt: Yeah. I think connecting with people, you know, has been really great. You know, those one-to-one connections, there's a lot of people you meet and actually meeting a lot of people but a lot of women are more likely to talk about it than men, interestingly. But that might just be me, that I'm drawn towards that because I'm just used to that from my own life, which is surrounded by women at home and and when I was growing up, you know, but in terms of strategies, what was the question? Strategies for like staying sober or?

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. I mean, what I like to do is plan the exercise things I'm gonna do, you know.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: So, I really like planning when I'm gonna do the yoga. I like booking it up. I like to do that. And actually, some of them are quite cliché, it's like, you know, when you read about the sort of quit lit books, you know, have something else to do and I used to read it sort of early on think, you know, Oh, instead of going for a drink, do a meditation or something like that. But it's true, it really works.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: You know, I look forward to doing yoga every evening. You know, I do this brilliant like, Yin yoga every Saturday at 4 o'clock, I really look forward to it. So look forward to it. The same as I used to look forward to having a drink. So, it's those things to look forward to, you know?

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Really, really help and they do work. You know, and I've discovered that I really like alcohol-free beer. I did early on. I don't drink as much for now, I probably have one or two. And I just laugh at myself now because alcohol-free beer is so good that you don't need to have normal beer, like the taste, and I, you know, I drink some other drinks as well, because there's no good alcohol-free wine. So, you need those little treats.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: You know, those kind of help you along the way. I ate a little bit more chocolate than I used to. Someone seemed to start that around Christmas actually, it hasn't really stopped. But I don't feel that bad for it because my calories and everything is okay, and it's like, you know, but I've given up sugar in my tea and coffee. I've got this sweetener thing and stuff. So, it's little things you sort of picking away. Lots of little things along the way

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: To keep you going. But it's quite a subconscious level sometimes. It's not really, it's just sort of natural now. My life's quite natural flow of what happens. It's not, you know, leading to the inevitable 5 o'clock, what am I gonna drink? You know, when am I gonna drink? And looking forward to it. Those are the things that I don't miss really because they're quite an extreme side of drinking where you like, and I think you spend about this for where you're like, you're going out to a restaurant, you're going somewhere, it's like, there's no drink. What am I gonna do? When am I gonna have that drink? You know? I don't miss that, so that intensity is gone.

Alex: Yeah. So, you mentioned, we've talked a little bit about the yoga. I also know that you're really into walking. Has that helped you maintain your sobriety or stay alcohol-free? And how has it helped?

Matt: Yeah. Did the walking challenge last year with a load of people I'd met through not drinking, and that was really great, and I got quite competitive about it. I know it helps me. I've probably slipped 10%, 15%, 20% in the last few weeks. It's been very cold and dark, and I noticed it in my head, it really does make a difference, mentally, and it probably would have been a good thing to do when I was drinking anyway. But right now, it just, it complements not drinking so much. And, you know, getting up early, going for a walk, going for long walks, feeling physically good, I'd like to run more but I've had some injuries in my knee before and calf, and, yeah, it just fits in so well with yoga, because yoga is so about stretching and pose, and then I'm walking, I'm away, I'm listening to my music, I listen to books sometimes. It just seems the right thing to do. Yeah, I don't know really. I think I can't quite work out why I didn't do it before. It's strange.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: So, I tend to do like 3 000 steps a day, which varies between sort of 14, 15, 16 kilometers, so nearly 10 miles a day. And it just feels a natural thing to do. And I feel bad if I don't do it, you know, I feel not as good.

Alex: Yeah. That's huge. I just had a conversation the other day, an interview with my uncle as well, and he is huge into the walking as well. I have not gotten quite into it myself, but I know that it's pretty big amongst, you know, the alcohol-free community to get into walking or get into running, as you say.

Matt: Yeah.

Alex: So, maybe it's something worth exploring.

Matt: Yeah, I think it is. It does seem to be that you when you don't drink, you go into some sort of exercise kind of thing.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: It's kind of natural because my body's not as bloated. I mean, I've lost over 20 pounds since last May. And people would probably say to me you didn't need to, but I did I was starting to feel it.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: There's still a way to go in terms of the toning, but yoga just tones your body. I mean, it really does make a difference so much.

Alex: That's true.

Matt: But you're able to then do that exercise because you haven't got that flab on you that fat and I've got into, you know, odd enough, but I've gotten sort of watching calories, you know, what goes in, what goes out and, you know, it's that's fascinating as well. You know, I remember doing this, the body coach program with Joe Wicks where it's very much about massive, high intensity exercise, and kind of eating what you want really not looking at the calories, but I was drinking at the same time.

Alex: Right.

Matt: And it didn't say we advise you not to drink, but I was like, No. I deserve it after doing those workouts. I absolutely deserve it. And, you know, it's just wrong. Whereas watching your calories easier and still eating the things you want. I mean, the calories in drink, it's extreme.

Alex: I know.

Matt: I worked out beer and wine the amount I was having a week. I was eating another day and a half of calories just in alcohol in a week, so how I would be able to walk and do the exercise, you know, no chance. I mean, I remember crying years ago when I was drinking and it made me sick. I remember saying this early on when I did yoga that, you know, doing a downward dog, I would wanna vomit.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: You know, I couldn't do it. I did gymnastics with my daughters on a couple of Friday evenings, and I vomited. I actually was sick. I couldn't put my head down like, I mean, I can't do a forward roll without feeling sick. I still have, no, I do suffer emotion sickness but it's, you know, 78% better from not drinking.

Alex: Wow, that's huge.

Matt: It's quite nice, it's a massive change. Like, the stuff I can do in yoga now, it's stuff dreams really because it really is that the change is amazing. The stuff I can do. When I was doing a crow pose the other day, and held it comfortably. And actually, I was doing it properly for the first time, I listened to the instructor instead of trying to do what I thought it was and it was really quite easy.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And I can't believe I can do that because that would have made me vomit.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: I mean, that's the ridiculous thing about it. I'm getting off on the tangent here, but basically, I was making decisions to go out on a Friday night and Saturday, and make myself ill. If you know, that's what you're getting into, that's fine. But I think if someone actually said to me basically what you're doing is making your body sick, you know, and when we all do things that does not feel great, but it's quite an extreme thing to do and, you know, there's a whole narrative there about drinking culture that needs resolving because it is as bad as heroin or cocaine, it really is.

Alex: It is.

Matt: It is poisonous and you're making yourself ill and, you know, one of my friends [33:03] Pippa, I've met through one, you know, beer. She's like, she talks about this a lot, you know, why would you want to plan to be ill the following day? And that's the bottom line.

Alex: So true.

Matt: It seems ridiculous, doesn't it?

Alex: But it's so true. That's exactly what we're doing.

Matt: Yeah.

Alex: Exactly what you're doing. Yeah.

Matt: Indeed. You need some yoga in the morning, you know.

Alex: So, that kind of leads me into the next question. What advice would you give, first of all, to teenagers or young people that are beginning to experiment with alcohol?

Matt: Yeah. It's one that's quite close to my heart. I've got a 13-year old daughter. I've got 13, 11 and 8, so I'm gonna come across this. I don't know. I'm too new into this to know what to say, I think.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: I was thinking about this. It's there. I think my advice I give them is my life, what I'm doing now, you know, my daughters know about it. They talk about it. You know, just seeing the change in me, I'm less anxious, I'm not a shouty, you know, there's always gonna be an anxiety thing with me. That's a whole different thing. But they're seeing, you know, the better version of me. It's almost like, I can see what the parallel life would have been. And telling people who were around you, I remember at Christmas, you know, the parents always buy his presence and I got in touch with this sort of the main parent in the class and I said, you know, I just wanna let, you know, I don't drink because you're setting that example, and I didn't wanna receive loads of bottles of wine and beer, which I do often. So, you spread it. You spread your news, your life, that's the best thing my advice to teenagers would be. And actually, I think it's changing, Alex. I think the culture's changing slowly. You know, where I live now in London, I'm lucky that our life doesn't seem to be about teenagers going out and getting plastered in the pub. It's not that sort of environment. Whereas when I grew up, you know, in the early 80s, you know, late 80s, 90s, it was very common. So, things have changed, and I think I would say to a teenager, look at the choices, yeah. And my endurance is a lot more, and they will know, you know, sports science, you know, talks about these things. So, I think we're in a different position. And you can show them things, you can show them the devastating impact of it, you know, you can show them what it will do to you if you do drink, whereas, you know, 30 years ago, that there wasn't a YouTube, there wasn't things you could look up easily.

Alex: Right. Exactly.

Matt: Just meeting what you did, now we can show them things, and show them choices and we talk about it in schools. I think the big change is we don't talk about drink as a drug in schools. And I just think it should be thoughts in that way.

Alex: I agree.

Matt: Because it's legal. It's so it's so prevalent.

Alex: I totally agree. You know, I have this distinct memory when I was 13 of having to do a school project. They said, interview a smoker, and I found my grandad. He had smoked two packs a day since age 14 until age 80. I had to calculate how much money he spent. I had to interview him on all of the, you know, awful side effects, and I will never forget that project because it made me never want to touch a cigarette. And I think back to that, and I'm like, if I was taught about alcohol in the same way, it might not prevent me from having a drink but it would make me think about my whole life span. The amount of money, the amount of time, the health. And so, I definitely think that the dialogue needs to be presented exactly as you say, like a drug in school. That's what it is.

Matt: Yeah. I think it does, and I'm worried it's not actually, because I'm thinking about the fact that even in my year, six classes at school which are 10-11 year olds, they get these, you know, a lot about gang culture and drugs. My elder sisters and going out with someone who's a former addict, actually, really interesting story. He was into drink but so much drugs. And it's all about drugs in school, but it's categorized differently.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: My gran, actually, also sounds like your grandfather, smoked from like, forever, you know? Just so normalized. But smoking went away, you know, it has. Why is the governments not doing that? Why aren't they putting the pictures of, you know, liver disease or whatever on the alcohol? That's what we need to get to. And I don't have a problem with people drinking either if they want to, but you're not given the full picture.

Alex: Exactly. You're not given the full picture. And I do believe that that is changing because the world health organization in 2020 said that the safest amount of alcohol when it comes to cancer is zero, and that was like, a groundbreaking announcement because up until 2020 they said drinking in moderation was fine. So, I do think that this is like going to have a ripple effect through the world, the same way the news around cigarettes did. We're just kind of like, getting there right now.

Matt: Yeah. I mean, there's, it's interesting gambling, which is another kind of vice. There's a message, you know, that they put out in the UK, and they probably do it globally with a lot of betting companies when the funds stop. But the problem with alcohol is, you don't stop because it's in your system.

Alex: Right.

Matt: And this is the problem. And this is actually the problem with Covid, I mean, I'm going off on a tangent again but, you know, drinking has led to the spread of Covid. I'm convinced about it.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: No. Bob's bars, you know, these parties and things, you know, they're, it's heavily influenced by drink.

Alex: Oh, absolutely.

Matt: No one's come out and said this. I'm not saying you're more likely, well I'm not saying, physically. Well, you are there.

Alex: Yes.

Matt: You're more likely to catch it if you're hobbling and coming into contact with something that you do. So, and I'm just amazed, no one's come out and said that. And, you know, they're already talking in the UK about how pubs are gonna open in April for takeaways and all this and, you know, people stood on the street drinking and, you know, I mean, it's nice to catch up with people but you do get closer to people? I don't know.

Alex: You know, this reminds me. I've actually never made that connection that drinking has led to the spread of Covid, but you're absolutely right because I'm thinking back to this memory in May when it finally started to get warm in Canada. The biggest thing was that there was this big park, Trinity Bellwoods Park in Canada where teenagers and young adults would go drink during the day. I never went. I don't know why. I guess I wasn't really in my adolescence in Toronto. I was at university in a different town. But apparently it's like the thing to go drink there during the day, and apparently there were like 10 000 people in like, day, and the mayor went down and was asking the kids like, you know, What are you doing? And to them, it's like once you're under the influence, you're like touching, you're getting closer, and I'm sure that events like that could probably be directly linked to outbreaks.

Matt: It leads, doesn't it, to relationships and all sorts. I mean, let's get real. You know, you're out with your mates, you're kissing, you're hugging, you're all, you know, it's pretty obvious.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And in the sense, some sort of hard drug culture is not like, not the same.

Alex: Yeah, it's so true.

Matt: I mean, reading this book about this addict, I know now or former addict, you know, you pretty much go and get high and you're very solitary? Drinking's not like that. And your body is not as healthy. I mean, one of my friends I met through a drink ended up in hospital with Covid, I just spoke to the other day, and she said she was on a recovery ward and the doctor said to her, you know, because of your clean living health style, you're getting over this.

Alex: Wow.

Matt: That's what I feel like. I feel like if I got Covid now, I would be in a really good position to tackle it.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: In fact I flew nine years ago, my first year of teaching, and I was dying and I went to the doctor and she said, You do feel like you're dying, don't you? You have got proper flu. I had sinus problems, my nose was bleeding, I always felt faint, it was awful. She said, You'll never get flu again, said, your body is, you know, but drinking is not gonna help you.

Alex: Absolutely.

Matt: It's not gonna keep you amazingly good so, you know, I just wish they'd come out and tell people that.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Instead, the news, the press is, you know, pints of beer getting wasted, you know, barrels of beer being thrown away in all sorts, you know?

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Strange message, I think.

Alex: Yeah, I completely agree. All right, I'm wondering, what advice would you give to someone who wants to stop drinking?

Matt: Read about it. Read the health benefits. Really question why you wanna do it. And also, question how long you wanna do it for, and I think the biggest thing is, for me, it's are you seriously thinking about, you know, you're depriving yourself of it, or are you looking to sort of advance your life? Because I think this is the problem with dry January, and I've seen a lot of people going, Oh my god, it's 30 days. I'm finally gonna drink gin tomorrow. You know, you've built up this sort of tension about it, you know, you need to think why you're doing it, what's it for, what do you hope to gain from it. And yeah, read. I mean, join groups. For me, if I look back, I would have said to myself, Do something like yoga alongside it. Because it's complemented it. For me, the yoga journey is as big as the not drinking journey, and it is unusual for a guy to do it for sure, but it just seems to be. But do something alongside it. In fact, it's probably overtaken not drinking, I would say, as being the big life change, honestly.

Alex: Yeah, it's huge. Well, thank you so much, Matt, for joining me today for your time. This has been such an awesome interview. And if you, listeners, if you join a Mindful Life Practice class, I am sure that you're gonna meet Matt, and he also can be found on Tiktok. He has a great Tiktok account posting about yoga and sobriety, so yeah. Little plug there. Thank you so much, Matt.

Matt: Thank you so much. Thank you,

Alex: Bye.

Outro: Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Sober Yoga Girl with Alex McRobs. I am so, so grateful for every one of you. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss the next one and leave a review before you go. See you soon. Bye.